Is it time to put the brakes on the boom in beekeeping?

[Apiarisnt]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...the-trouble-with-britains-beekeeping-boom-aoe
Discuss...

 

[Boston Bees]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...the-trouble-with-britains-beekeeping-boom-aoe
Discuss...

Pargyle isn't going to like this....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The usual rubbish being regurgitated again with no thought as to whether there's any real truth in it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...the-trouble-with-britains-beekeeping-boom-aoe
Discuss...

You first. Instead of just throwing a link at us, you first

 

[Erichalfbee]

The usual rubbish being regurgitated again with no thought as to whether there's any real truth in it.

Makes good copy and a change from Covid, I guess . Mind you we do have a new word. Pingemic?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Makes good copy and a change from Covid, I guess . Mind you we do have a new word. Pingemic?

a few months ago SWMBO was pinged - for a start, it was nearly two weeks after the alleged contact, and when we worked back, neither of us had been out of the house that day or on any day seven days each side of the date, neither had we met anyone else during that time.

 

[The Poot]

It’s from the Grauniad what else do you expect?

Edit - to correct spelling of Grauniad

 

[pargyle]

Pargyle isn't going to like this....

Once again ... it's a study that by, nature of the sources it takes from, is fundamentally flawed ..indeed it is probably looking through the wrong end of the telescope ... if the perpetrators, promoters and purveyors of this information thought about it a bit ... if the problem, as they perceieve it, is that there is not enough forage in urban locations then perhaps the answer is not to try and reduce the number of pollinators but to encourage the owners and occupiers of urban landscapes to plant more things that are pollinator friendly.

I would agree that it has become very fashionable for inner city firms to put beehives on their roofs and balconies and I suspect that there is not as much forage in say the square mile of the City of London as perhaps there is in say Kensington ... but how many other pollinator species would you find there anyway ?

The bottom line was something I picked up some years ago ... if you plant things that are attractive to pollinators - they will come.

I really doubt that, in the vast majority of locations, honey bees have any appreciable effect on the livelihood of other pollinator species.

The last paragraph I think was the most relevant:

Richard Comont from the Bumblebee Conservation Trust. “Beekeeping in and of itself is a good thing for people to be able to do but it’s a question of scale and responsibility,” he says. “There are a lot of wellbeing benefits, and the honey you get out of a hive is massively nicer than anything you can get in the supermarkets. Those sort of reasons are perfectly valid reasons to keep bees.

“As long as you realise that you aren’t doing it to save the bees; in the same way, if you keep chickens next to your beehive you aren’t saving the white-tailed sea eagle.”

 

[Erichalfbee]

The bottom line was something I picked up some years ago ... if you plant things that are attractive to pollinators - they will come.

That goes across the board of course. Stan and I put up a barn owl box and we got barn owls. A tawny box and our garden is alive at night with three youngster flying from tree to tree and squeaking at each other. Our little solitary bee boxes are full of leaf cutter bee nests, the new pond has attracted not only frogs and various insects but also a grass snake
We SHOULD make the effort where we can.

 

[pargyle]

That goes across the board of course. Stan and I put up a barn owl box and we got barn owls. A tawny box and our garden is alive at night with three youngster flying from tree to tree and squeaking at each other. Our little solitary bee boxes are full of leaf cutter bee nests, the new pond has attracted not only frogs and various insects but also a grass snake
We SHOULD make the effort where we can.

Totally agree ... even where I live, near the centre of town, our garden attracts all types of insects, birds and mammals ...our 8' x 4' wildlife pond is home to frogs and newts (how do they find it ?) a field mouse lives in a hole alongside the pond paved margin and we get dragonflies and damsel flies... the loostrife is awash with bees of all sorts. So much can be done in a small space and we should all encourage domestic and commercial locations to make more of their environment.

 

[Apiarisnt]

You first. Instead of just throwing a link at us, you first

There is a scintilla of sense within this Grauniad article (unlike the bollocks they wrote about the CEH neonics study in 2017 - Pesticides damage survival of bee colonies, landmark study shows). In central London, it would appear that there are too many beekeepers trying to 'save the bees'. All credit to Dale Gibson of Bermondsey bees for realising this and moving his hives away from the centre of London (and worth listening to him on the BBC World Service BBC World Service - The Food Chain, Life lessons from the honey bee).

And I am sure we have all come across others trying to 'save the bees' by having an ill informed go, setting up, and then giving up, leaving a festering disease reservoir for the rest of us. ( By contrast I learned this week of someone over the other side of the county who bought a couple of flow hives, put them together and put them in his garden and is still waiting for some bees to come along and do the rest of the work)

So this Grauniad article ought to feature in Private Eye, not in the 'Pseud's Corner' but in the ' It's Grim Up North London ' cartoon. Very Grauniad. Very London centric, and less relevant to the hoped for boom in beekeeping outside of London, which I will continue to try to promote through my local BKA - but explaining to newcomers that we are not doing this intrinsically to 'save the bees'

As to whether managed bees have negative effects on wild bees, have a look at the systematic review of the literature attached

 

[ericbeaumont]

if the problem, as they perceieve it, is that there is not enough forage

Truth is, they don't know.

The topic has been chewed over since the 60s and no-one is any nearer to concluding unequivocally that honey bees out-compete other pollinators.

Bodies such as Natural England rely instead on the precautionary principle (aka just in case) and that is an understandable decision.

Variables of landscape, pollinators and forage are so seasonal that certainty will always elude researchers seeking a blanket conclusion.

A few years ago I ferreted out info. from way back and doscovered that Dorian Pritchard explored the same issue in a landscape magazine in the 70s or 80s.

I think it was Tony Jefferson, writing in BBKA News a while back, who listed the top ten forage plants for honey bees and for bumbles or other bees.

As I recall, only three plants overlapped: clover, bramble and lime, and as those grow in abundance you might conclude that there's enough for all.

Nevertheless, the London Wildlife Trust wrote recently to end our apiary tenure at Woodberry Wetlands, using the precautionary principle as a reason (a public stinging incident at another reserve gave them good reason to close the door).

Pity, as this ends our opportunity (as Tim Vivian described) to use honey bees as a shop window to lure the public into learning about the broader issues of pollination, food production and land management, and to learn to love nature (including wasps).

Yes: the solution is not to moan about beekeepers, but to persuade those with power (inc. you and I) to plant more.

 

[pargyle]

Yes i think there has been too much hand wringing and slow knee-jerking over this issue for too many years ... and regrettably the band wagon gets jumped on by people who, frankly, have not done their homework, have little knowledge about either bees or other pollinators and are just writing articles to either pursue their own agenda or make money ....

 

[robinharman]

I was asked to put bees into the Olympic Village, Stratford, E20 by the community management team last year. 100m from the River Lea.
I was concerned there would be little forage but was being paid so agreed.
Currently have nine supers sitting almost full spread across two hives, and very nice honey too.
Seems to be enough forage to go round.
Did get pinged for EFB and a negative inspection took place last week

 

[Wilco]

Well it's the Guardian. Almost to journalism what Countryfile is to farming...

Think it all depends. Some of the points in the article seem fair- like a lot of 'save the bees' beekeepers (bee havers?) and increased population density, especially with poorly managed hives, acting as a reservoir for disease spread. There are vast swathes of the public with no idea about different bee species (as we know many struggle to differentiate bees, flies and wasps) so increasing awareness of different species declining is helpful. Likewise there is some evidence showing reduction in some of the solitary bee species where there is a high density of honey bee colonies (although not all of these papers are great quality) although as said above there is often a difference in which plant species are targeted by AM vs other spp...

If it leads to more people considering what they plant and planting more forage species etc.. hopefully some good will come of it. Attention also needs to be drawn to the fact that many modern strains of flower are not good at producing pollen or nectar so people may plant them thinking they're helping the insects but aren't.

 

[Poly Hive]

Here in a very rural location we have a bee hotel up, has been for two years and not a creature has taken up the offer. Three out of four bird boxes are unoccupied this year despite various bird foods and water available. Then there is a succulent we planted from a plug plant and this year it is alive with bumbles. We count as its next to the steps taking us across the lawn to the veg and poly tunnel. Usually at least 5 if not 8 bumble bees on it at any time. Not though honey bees. So it is very clear that there are specific plants we can use to help the "bees" with out targeting the dreadful voracious honey ladies.

PH

 

[Beesnaturally]

There is, simply obviously, some truth in the charge. But there is truth too in the counter-argument that involvement with honeybees brings a sense of connection to nature - and that too is important.

The best thing to do surely is use our joint expertise to locate the best of all worlds - cities that seethe with nectar-eating insects and the higher elements of the food chain that rely on them. Leverage the honeybee interest into more rounded education and appreciation of bees generally and ecosystems as a whole. It seems likely that ecosystem conservation will be a large part of UK 'farming' in the future. Engaged city kids could bring a lot too, and benefit from, an expansion in ecosystem engagement, drawn in by honeybees and led toward the wider ecosystems they -should be - part of.

 

[hemo]

Honey bees taking all the forage I believe is a just a cop out as the blame for insect reduction has to have the blame put somewhere. I have some forna in the garden where all bees appear to compete for the same source and others where I see no honey bees but other species. As long as there is variety then all find a source of food.
My bee hotels and old rawl plug holes in the house walls are 99.5 % utilised this year unlike last year, two bumble bee nests under two sheds had been very busy and one in the ground in the border. One is still going probably on a 2nd smaller brood cycle, the first to show signs of slowing produced many 10's of new queens late June to early July and I know this because I kept an eye on them daily and had to leave the shed door ajar for an easier escape route for them.
The Robins produced offspring which was nice to see with fluffy young being seen flying about, the little secretive Wren was glimpsed twice and believe she raised young as well as they were busy and happily took the meal and calico worms left out. Tits were seen entering and leaving a nest box, warily watching in the hope no one is watching them entering.

 

[mbc]

Strange flag to pin your colours to, a better target would be concrete driveways or AstroTurf lawns or in fact any development that negatively impacts habitats.

 

[holmbee]

We just have to understand that newspapers need articles that appeal to readers and encourage them to discuss with others. Hence increasing their circulation, advertising and these days survival.. My experience with the oil industry is that journalists and editors are very selective with the facts in order to make their articles more interesting - being informative is not an essential. However IMO the Guardian is one of the better newspapers for honest journalism.