Is it OK to put a swarm in a nucleus?

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BeeBo

New Bee
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Aug 16, 2012
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Location
Devon
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Number of Hives
1 WBC 2 National
I have just collected my first swarm ( yes in the dark!). It came from my own hive and had attached itself to the side of our caravan.
I have put it in a nucleus box as I had no full sized hives empty. It wasn't a huge swarm - about 12 inches diameter and an inch deep.
Assuming it stays put is it Ok to leave it in the nucleus for a while ( a week or two) until I have a hive available after reuniting the artificial swarm I did on another hive?
Do I need to do anything with it, like feed?
 
I would say yes a nuc is fine, but perhaps peep to check space. Don't feed for a couple of days so they can use up target than store honey, reducing disease transmission. If space is limited only feed if necessary (poor weather) as don't want to outgrow the nuc before alternative accommodation is available.
 
Does depend on size of swarm, but if not too big should be fine.

As long as there is space for queen to lay actual number of bees won't increase for 3weeks. So you should have plenty of time to get your hive ready.
 
As the swarm is from your own hive, I would have thought that you could feed straight away - as long as you know the disease status of the mother hive.
 
IMO probably not. Any decent prime swarm will be approx half the bees from an already overcrowded hive. Estimates of the size of a swarm in the dark when the bees were likely clustered tightly due to the temperature are often wrongly estimated and I don't work on such reported figures.

You might, or might not, wonder why package bees are sold by weight and not volume!

But, there again if it is from one of your hives you should know its approximate strength and whether it was a prime or a cast. The one redeeming factor here might be that it is only half of a ten frame WBC, but if there were already a couple of supers on the hive .... Nor do you quote the size of the nuc, so we have to assume 5 frames only.

Also, think about this. If you are sure they are from your bees, disease transmission considerations, and so feeding only after three days is simply not appropriate - that is for incoming swarms from colonies of unverifiable health status.

The colony is not going to increase for at least three weeks, is it? So if it is adequate now, it should be OK for a couple of weeks at a push, depending on the weather and flow. I just doubt whether it is big enough. They may even abscond.

Another consideration is whether you supplied foundation only or fully drawn comb.

It is no good coming on here looking for justification for your actions. You need to think about your bees. Responses on here will be from anyone and everyone who doesn't know the real situation. I certainly don't, but I would rather be conservative, than foolhardy, with my response.
 
I generally use a 14x12 6 frame poly nuc for swarm collection. Easy to have a couple in the van, easy to shut them in and take them away Just have to remember to 'seal' access to the mesh floor as quite a lot try to get into the nuc that way, I use an old towel to sit the hive on whilst waiting for them to go in.
Once sited in their new home I turn the entrance disc to QE for about 3 days, I then open up and have a quick look to see what I have after 3 days and feed if they need it.

In answer to your question........
I would say a std national 5 frame nuc is not what they left home for.
 
If you collected in a Paynes poly nuc close off the feeder compartment, the bees will make comb in there, I found!, feed with a small rapid feeder if needed.
 
Again it all depends on the size of the swarm and they often look way bigger when in the tree than a few days later on the frames.

A swarm will reduces in size before any brood emerges
 
It is no good coming on here looking for justification for your actions.

Is this forum offering a prize for the most unpleasant reply or something ... ?

BeeBo - two tips:
if you need a National deep in a hurry, but haven't got a spare one handy - then a 75mm deep eke under a super will provide a temporary workaround. How long does it take to make one of those (?), just a few minutes - at a push, just 4 pieces of wood and 8 nails. Don't worry about leaving fresh air under the lug rebate areas - they're unlikely to build comb there - just make a quick and simple square eke with the planks.

You say "Assuming it stays put ..." - one way of more-or-less guaranteeing this is to put a frame of brood (with some unsealed cells) into the box to 'anchor' the swarm there. They're then very unlikely to abandon that brood.
Indeed, a well-known method of actually capturing a swarm - especially one at considerable height - is to place such a frame into a well-perforated box which is then raised to within a few feet of the swarm, by courtesy of a cord thrown over a branch using a fishing rod or similar.

Good luck with your swarm.

LJ
 
Put the nuc on one side of a weak hive Waite 3 days then move to other side then 3 days then move to new site
 
Put the nuc on one side of a weak hive Waite 3 days then move to other side then 3 days then move to new site

???

Is that the nuke with the captured swarm? Or an empty box to trap a swarm???

What if they've brought the pox with em??
 
IMO probably not. Any decent prime swarm will be approx half the bees from an already overcrowded hive. Estimates of the size of a swarm in the dark when the bees were likely clustered tightly due to the temperature are often wrongly estimated and I don't work on such reported figures.

You might, or might not, wonder why package bees are sold by weight and not volume!

But, there again if it is from one of your hives you should know its approximate strength and whether it was a prime or a cast. The one redeeming factor here might be that it is only half of a ten frame WBC, but if there were already a couple of supers on the hive .... Nor do you quote the size of the nuc, so we have to assume 5 frames only.

Also, think about this. If you are sure they are from your bees, disease transmission considerations, and so feeding only after three days is simply not appropriate - that is for incoming swarms from colonies of unverifiable health status.

The colony is not going to increase for at least three weeks, is it? So if it is adequate now, it should be OK for a couple of weeks at a push, depending on the weather and flow. I just doubt whether it is big enough. They may even abscond.

Another consideration is whether you supplied foundation only or fully drawn comb.

It is no good coming on here looking for justification for your actions. You need to think about your bees. Responses on here will be from anyone and everyone who doesn't know the real situation. I certainly don't, but I would rather be conservative, than foolhardy, with my response.

I'm hardly likely to try weighing them when 10 ft up a ladder with a cardboard box in the middle of the night am I?

You have managed to write quite a lengthy response without saying anything remotely useful. Probably best not to bother in future. If you needed more information to be able to help, why not just ask for it?

I'm staggered to see in your profile you have worked in education. Presumably, quite a short career.
 
Thank you for all your helpful responses. It seems the consensus is that the nucleus is probably going to be a bit snug.

Is there any point trying to return some of the bees (without the queen obviously!) to the hive they came from? I take it the point from weatherman re. putting nucleus alongside weak hive is to try to achieve this. Could I just shake a couple of frames from the swarm back into the hive? I have never handled bees that have swarmed before so not sure how they are likely to behave.
 
Thank you for all your helpful responses. . . . . . . . .
Is there any point trying to return some of the bees (without the queen obviously!) to the hive they came from?

Probably NOT!

We're early in the season, "Swarm in May" e.t.c.

Put them in a full sized box and let them do what they do, (but try not to let them swarm again)!
 
I'm hardly likely to try weighing them when 10 ft up a ladder with a cardboard box in the middle of the night am I?

You have managed to write quite a lengthy response without saying anything remotely useful. Probably best not to bother in future. If you needed more information to be able to help, why not just ask for it?

I'm staggered to see in your profile you have worked in education. Presumably, quite a short career.

Brilliant! :icon_204-2:
 

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