Is anything wrong with doing a split like this

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Gscot 

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I've noticed charged queen cells and cant find the queen to do an AS
Is there anything wrong with doing a split like this
Move the original hive 20 meters
Put a new hive with frames on the original hive position
All the flying bees return to the original hive
All the brood and queen are 20 meters away
Put a frame of sealed brood and a frame of eggs back with the flying bees on the original site along with a queen cell
Remove all the other queen cells
Going to have to move fast (tomorrow) Dont want to lose a swarm
 

Gscot 

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Should I shake a frame of nurse bees or will the sealed brood hatch to become nurse bees
 
T

Tom Bick 

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I've noticed charged queen cells and cant find the queen to do an AS
Is there anything wrong with doing a split like this
Move the original hive 20 meters
Put a new hive with frames on the original hive position
All the flying bees return to the original hive
All the brood and queen are 20 meters away
Put a frame of sealed brood and a frame of eggs back with the flying bees on the original site along with a queen cell
Remove all the other queen cells
Going to have to move fast (tomorrow) Dont want to lose a swarm
One thing I have learnt is beekeeping allows for experimentation. With this in mind and you have thought it through I would go for it. One possible problem I would think of is the bees with the queen may still be on swarm mode and continue to build swarm cells. A simple split by removing the queen and a couple of frames may be easier and in the end perhaps the same results.
 

Gscot 

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Going to go for it tomorrow ,Thanks
Will let you know how I get on
 

newportbuzz 

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if you were to move the hive to one side of the old site it would allow you to drain a few more bees off in a week or two with a second move.
if you are worried about nurse bees take them from the super's no queen up there hopefully.
 

drex 

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You will have done nothing to relieve the urge to swarm. Queen will still be in a box with loads of brood.
If I really could not find queen, I would shake and brush all the bees into a new box on same site. Put on qe, couple of supers, then original BB. HM would then be split from brood. Nurse bees would move up to cover brood. Maybe a drawn frame and frame of sealed brood in bottom box. What you choose to do about the queen cells is up to you, depending on your plans
 

Gscot 

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Moved the hive the 20 meters. Weather was'nt great and the flying bees came out in small numbers back to the original site.
Did not put a frame of eggs back to original in case they made more Queen cells just a frame of feed and sealed brood.
Dont think all the flying bees are out yet but a good bulk are
That leaves the flying bees Q- with no capablities to make one only a sealed Queen cell, surely they wont swarm and leave the hive Queenless
And the other split leaves nurse bees most of the brood and eggs and the Queen no Queen cells and not many flying bees. They surely cant swarm
One slight problem I have is going to be a lot of flying bees who are not pleased to be Q- The weather not very good at the moment so they might settle in a couple of days
 

Chris B 

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What have you done with the super(s) and the bees in them? They should be at original location.
If you didn't have supers on then it's no surprise they are in swarm mode.
 
T

Tom Bick 

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Are you saying the flying bees on the original site have a sealed queen cell? If so then perhaps your bees may have already swarmed and you are a bit late.

If you have left the flying bees with no chance of raising a queen you may end up with very grumpy bees.
 
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Gscot 

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The super is with the split and the brood with most of the food (no flying bees to forage)
They have not swarmed I think next chink of sun and they would have been away. The Queen cell is just about sealed.
 

Gscot 

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I think they were in swarm mode because the brood box had 4 frames full of sugar syrup+honey from last year and not much room but I didn't have a queen excluder on and though they had plenty of room because she was laying in the super
 
T

Tom Bick 

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Ok so you transferred a frame with queen cell to the original site for the flying bees. You may be advised to give the flying bees that other frame with material to raise more queen cells or one in particular if they need it. The frame with the queen cell did you move it with the bees on the frame and risk the slight chance you transferred the queen or did you remove the bees? If you removed the bees it's how you removed them is important, shaking them off is bad for the queen cell, brushing them is better but then you leave the frame and queen cell exposed to the temperature drop and waiting for enough flying bees to return to the hive and realise what is going on and start to keep the brood warm may also be bad news for the brood and especially the queen cell.
 

beeno 

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Hi Gscot,
I did what you have done last year, but I did hope I had got the queen with the flyers. As it turned out that was not the case and I gave the foragers a beautiful QC. However, I knocked the frame a bit and as a result left a new QC that they had made for insurance. Did not get my timings right and they swarmed on the first virgin emerging. Main colony was fine and superceded on one left QC. Result: I lost half the foragers and ended up with a 'scrub' queen supposedly who is doing just fine! Happy to say that this year all my queens are marked, so I can do an A/S text book style!
 

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