Invert Sugar

[itma]

I believe is 'designed-in' is that the proportions of glucose and fructose are not equal

I am afraid you believe wrongly. It is simply not possible as sucrose which is in sugar is a disaccaride of glucose and fructose so when it is broken down by hydrolysis it must give a 50:50 mix of each. So it cannot be built in

I'm afraid you have misunderstood me!

To clarify - I know that the proportions of glucose and fructose in commercial "beekeeping invert syrup" is not 50/50, and not the same for the different syrups ITLD has referred to. And I don't recall the proportions inverted.
But I do know full well that 50/50 (equal amounts of glucose and fructose) is what you would get from inversion alone.
My point was that 'diy inversion' alone is not going to get you the same as commercial syrup - it requires some fortification, with IIRC glucose.
And that the Glucose and Fructose contents are rather carefully chosen - "designed-in".

For the non-industrial quantities I'm ever likely to need, paying £1.25 a kilo for some Ambrosia (T's offer until 31/8, bring your own jerrycan -- and many associations offer similar bulk buy prices to members) is only a tiny cash premium over buying sugar at Tesco.
Compared to spending on hardware, travel, courses, etc ... its insignificant.
Which is why I'm giving some Ambrosia a try this autumn.
No, not a full double-blind trial, just giving some a try.

 

[itma]

...
I can get hold of the enzyme and it cheap as not much is needed. ...

Can you post a cheap source for small quantities, please?

/ I'd quite like to play with some ... in the kitchen, rather than the lab or apiary!

 

[Mart_got_hives]

OK so the inverted sugar in Ambrosia is done using enzymes, specifically invertases. A google search turns up 'LorAnn Flavouring Oils' branded Invertase/Fermvertase going for £4.99 for a 1oz bottle from online cake decorating suppliers. Blurb says one drop turns a pound of moist fondant to cream, not the most precise measurement ever.

Anyone tried using this with their bees?

Also one supplier states Ambrosia bee food syrup is composed of 40% highly pure fructose, 30% each glucose and sucrose, and water. I'm (obviously) no food chemist but would I be right in thinking this means it contains a mix of inverted and not inverted sugars? -suddenly it looks a lot more complex than 1ml of lemon juice..

 

[madasafish]

For the non-industrial quantities I'm ever likely to need, paying £1.25 a kilo for some Ambrosia (T's offer until 31/8, bring your own jerrycan -- and many associations offer similar bulk buy prices to members) is only a tiny cash premium over buying sugar at Tesco.
Compared to spending on hardware, travel, courses, etc ... its insignificant.
Which is why I'm giving some Ambrosia a try this autumn.
No, not a full double-blind trial, just giving some a try.

459 /kg or nearly 55% is not an insignificant premium in my book.

 

[Poly Hive]

Never used it but I do know a person who sells a lot of it and he says one of the main plusses is that it will not cause robbing if spilt which is it has to be said a major plus.

PH

 

[Into the lions den]

don't you realize that is is absolutely unnecessary.

Ihave not ever a beekeeper who do that.
When I have read official nutrition reports, no one mention thta
Can't you red clear facts?

What is the matter with your guys!

I'll tell you what is the matter with us.

We like the convenience, the no emptying of bags and stirring of tanks.
We like the no waste situation. These products never ferment and thus unused old syrup does not need tipping out in the corner of the apiary..
We like the complete disappearance of dysentry through improperly ripened stores.
We like the rapid and easy weight adding they get in autumn with these products.
We like the healthy gloss on the bees prior to wintering and (plainly wrong as it is inexplicable to you) improvement in wintering we get with these products.

Now, maybe liking these things shows us all up as idiots, but I will NOT go back to ordinary syrup, albeit it works out a little cheaper, so long as I can raise the money to buy these foods. If there was no sense in using them, no benefits to the bees and their keepers, they would have no market. But guess what? Their market is growing, and fast. People change over and do not want to go back. Maybe we are all idiots.

To other posters...........your prices are eye watering...........you just have to get onto association purchasing in bulk tanks. You would have decent product, the equivalent of Ambrosia, for your members at around 80p a kilo.

 

[Teemore]

I agree with ITLD - you probably won't even need the backing of a full association to get the benefits of a bulk buy. Get a few beekeepers together to place an order and see what prices you get quoted.

 

[alanf]

you just have to get onto association purchasing in bulk tanks. You would have decent product, the equivalent of Ambrosia, for your members at around 80p a kilo.

There's the difference really. Without bulk options we can buy retail containers at around £2 a kilo plus delivery compared with 80p a kilo for supermarket sugar. At 80p a kilo for syrup, it starts to make sense. So we try to persuade the association to stock it. What quantity counts as 'bulk'? I can see 870Kg tanks on pallets listed (but no prices quoted online), sounds like a half cubic metre IBC. Is that the minimum order?

 

[Walrus]

Glucose

Where I keep my bees the farmer has about 800-1000KG of pure glucose left over and he asked me if I knew of any beeks who might be interested in it. I don't think he is looking to make money; just wants the stuff gone.

I'm going to try some on a nuc to make sure it doesn't harm them, but farmer assures me it is pure glucose.

 

[george]

Dont forget to add in the extras to your 80p . Heating the water , containers , general aggravation and sticky kitchen .

Also no need to worry about it fermenting , in feeders or frames .

G

 

[itma]

459 /kg or nearly 55% is not an insignificant premium in my book.

My point was that (for the hobby beekeeper) even a large percentage of a small cost doesn't add up to a great deal of money.
The question was whether or not the extra cost was significant compared to the other costs facing a new or even newish beekeeper.
For most, the premium is tiny compared to other costs.
And ITLD has spelled out what that premium would be buying.

OK, strictly it is a 'revenue' cost and the big expenditure is actually 'capital' spending, but nevertheless, its not much compared to all the hidden costs like the cost of petrol to attend association meetings.

 

[farbee]

What rubbish.

Wriggle wriggle Blah, Blah, Blah

 

[Finman]

I'll tell you what is the matter with us.

We like the convenience, the no emptying of bags and stirring of tanks..

one thing what I learned here is to use pulsator loundry machine insyrup making.


yes I have seen the convinience.

You do not sell honey because it show really desperate level of living

you do to bees ten times more tricks when needed.

It is nice to feed bees year around like pigs. Your severe winters, under +10C temps need it.

 

[For want of a better word]

Where I keep my bees the farmer has about 800-1000KG of pure glucose left over and he asked me if I knew of any beeks who might be interested in it. I don't think he is looking to make money; just wants the stuff gone.

I'm going to try some on a nuc to make sure it doesn't harm them, but farmer assures me it is pure glucose.

could be used to make fondant.... perhaps you could try adding some fructose or sucrose to it???

 

[itma]

For the non-industrial quantities I'm ever likely to need, paying £1.25 a kilo for some Ambrosia ( ... ) is only a tiny cash premium over buying sugar at Tesco.
Compared to spending on hardware, travel, courses, etc ... its insignificant.
Which is why I'm giving some Ambrosia a try this autumn.
No, not a full double-blind trial, just giving some a try.

459 /kg or nearly 55% is not an insignificant premium in my book.

My point was that (for the hobby beekeeper) even a large percentage of a small cost doesn't add up to a great deal of money.
The question was whether or not the extra cost was significant compared to the other costs facing a new or even newish beekeeper.
For most, the premium is tiny compared to other costs.
And ITLD has spelled out what that premium would be buying.

...

What rubbish.

Wriggle wriggle Blah, Blah, Blah

Rubbish reading ability is what it might be.
Please try again, but more carefully.

There is no wriggling, no inconsistency whatsoever between my posts.

But a second attack based on failure to read my posts properly, does start to look like a pattern, and is, at minimum, flirting with my Ignore List.
I'd be truly delighted to be on yours!

 

[crazy_bull]

I'll tell you what is the matter with us.

We like the convenience, the no emptying of bags and stirring of tanks.
We like the no waste situation. These products never ferment and thus unused old syrup does not need tipping out in the corner of the apiary..
We like the complete disappearance of dysentry through improperly ripened stores.
We like the rapid and easy weight adding they get in autumn with these products.
We like the healthy gloss on the bees prior to wintering and (plainly wrong as it is inexplicable to you) improvement in wintering we get with these products.

Now, maybe liking these things shows us all up as idiots, but I will NOT go back to ordinary syrup, albeit it works out a little cheaper, so long as I can raise the money to buy these foods. If there was no sense in using them, no benefits to the bees and their keepers, they would have no market. But guess what? Their market is growing, and fast. People change over and do not want to go back. Maybe we are all idiots.

To other posters...........your prices are eye watering...........you just have to get onto association purchasing in bulk tanks. You would have decent product, the equivalent of Ambrosia, for your members at around 80p a kilo.

Everything you have said is spot on, convience is worth mega bucks with the time it saves. It makes me laugh the ammount of beekeepers who will say something like i managed to get my sugar for 5p/lb cheaper from so and so store but had to drive 20 miles extra etc etc.

We have got our Ambrosia equivilant Ex Germany for a fraction over 71p/kg, that's delivered to us in 14kg containers.

Convinence RULES

 

[Poly Hive]

Excellent.

I so agree with the penny pinching then the splurge on the fuel, makes me chuckle.

Can I ask now many containers?

PH

 

[Finman]

.
We have Ambrosia but price is high.
Our "easy system" is to deliver 67% syrup to customers container.
The price is douple compared to market sugar.
So when my winter food costs 600 euros, advanced alternative cots 1200 euros.

As a biochemist I can say the bees does not need inverted sugar. It is so simple

600 euros is money to me. Nothing to do with "convinience".

If I bye 600 euros summer tyres to car, it is convinience compared to 400 euros tyres.

Our winters are a little bit different compared to you +10C winter where bees get pollen year around.

Don't teach duck to swim.
.

 

[Poly Hive]

It's not a case of needing. Not for the bees.

It is though a case of it being a lot easier for the beekeepers.

It's that simple.

PH

 

[Finman]

.
In Finland Ambrosia is 2,5 kg 4 euros. I should drive 300 + 300 km to get that stuff.

Lidl is at the distance of 15 km. Sugar kilo is 97 cents = 1 euro/kg.

So 500 kg ambrosia is 800 euros...+ 100 euros car driving.
sugar,................................500 euros

difference is about douple.

Our sugar price is high because the state invented the sugar tax one year ago.