Invert Sugar

[snoop]

I was talking to a bee keeper ( that has a polish beekeeper working with him) that told me he uses invert sugar in Autumn for feeding as the bees have less work to do and take it down faster . Can anybody expand on this or how it is done .

 

[MuswellMetro]

I was talking to a bee keeper ( that has a polish beekeeper working with him) that told me he uses invert sugar in Autumn for feeding as the bees have less work to do and take it down faster . Can anybody expand on this or how it is done .

various manufacturer's inverted beet cane sugar sold under various names appiinvert, ambrosia and apifondant

i started using it this year, our association orders it by the pallet at half the price of the main retail suppliers

 

[Winker]

I use it to feed my bees as its as close to honey you can get without being honey.

I just made my own fondant with a inverted sugar mix. I intened to make my own for spring/nuc build up and for winter feeding also


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Inverted or invert[1] sugar syrup is a mixture of glucose and fructose; it is obtained by splitting sucrose into these two components. Compared with its precursor, sucrose, inverted sugar is sweeter and its products tend to remain more moist and are less prone to crystallisation. Inverted sugar is therefore valued by bakers, who refer to the syrup as trimoline or invert syrup.[2]

In technical terms, sucrose is a disaccharide, which means that it is a molecule derived from two simple sugars (monosaccharides). In the case of sucrose, these monosaccharide building blocks are fructose and glucose. The splitting of sucrose is a hydrolysis reaction. The hydrolysis can be induced simply by heating an aqueous solution of sucrose, but more commonly, catalysts are added to accelerate the conversion. The biological catalysts that are added are called sucrases (in animals) and invertases (in plants). Sucrases and invertases are types of glycoside hydrolase enzymes. Acid, such as occurs in lemon juice or cream of tartar, also accelerates the conversion of sucrose to invert.


Inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding roughly one gram of citric acid or ascorbic acid per kilogram of sugar. Cream of tartar (one gram per kilogram) or fresh lemon juice (10 millilitres per kilogram) may also be used.

The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes, and will convert enough of the sucrose to effectively prevent crystallization, without giving a noticeably sour taste. Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar.

All inverted sugar syrups are created from hydrolysing sucrose to glucose (dextrose) and fructose by heating a sucrose solution, then relying on time alone, with the catalytic properties of an acid or enzymes used to speed the reaction. Commercially prepared acid catalysed solutions are neutralised when the desired level of inversion is reached.

All constituent sugars (sucrose, glucose and fructose) support fermentation, so invert sugar solutions may be fermented as readily as sucrose solutions

 

[Midland Beek]

There's a few that make it themselves using citric acid. But it is a myth that bees take syrup and invert it all to simple sugars like they do nectar/honey. Most sugar syrup fed in a glut gets stored as straight sugar syrup by bees, and this is why it can spoil somewhat over time.

 

[Finman]

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Bees need not inverted sugar. Bee's stomach splits the sugar like do with humans.

Normal cane sugar has no problems as a food and inverting does not bring any added value.


This has been discussed here many times.

 

[Winker]

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Bees need not inverted sugar. Bee's stomach splits the sugar like do with humans.

Normal cane sugar has no problems as a food and inverting does not bring any added value.


This has been discussed here many times.

Proof? Normaly you back your statments with a list of published research papaers, or are you just saying what feels right?

FYI everything about beekeeping has been discussed here many times, lets close the forum theres nothing left to talk about.

 

[Finman]

Proof? Normaly you back your statments with a list of published research papaers, or are you just saying what feels right?
e:

when I started beekeeping 50 years ago , a 75 y old beek teached me, how to invert sugar. But he mentioned too that some guys have killed their yard too. He had worked in a chokolade factory.

If you want to discuss about something, lets start the issue "how to make 1:1 syrup". Weight or volume, cold water or hot water, what to put first, stir or not to stir,.

 

[Winker]

If you want to discuss about something, lets start the issue "how to make 1:1 syrup". Weight or volume, cold water or hot water, what to put first, stir or not to stir,.

Start another thread if you wish to discuse how to mix sugar this thread is about inverted sugar.

I was hoping that you could point me to some study thats been done on the subject other than the one from Barker and Lehner, 1973 where they say "Inverted Sugar is some times refered to as artifical honey as its composition and properties are nearly the same"

So on that basis, IMHO it has to be better than sugar syrup that has not been inverted.

 

[susbees]

There's a few that make it themselves using citric acid. But it is a myth that bees take syrup and invert it all to simple sugars like they do nectar/honey. Most sugar syrup fed in a glut gets stored as straight sugar syrup by bees, and this is why it can spoil somewhat over time.

Please quote some articles/papers that show this....

 

[Finman]

Start another thread if you wish to discuse how to mix sugar this thread is about inverted sugar.

I was hoping that you could point me to some study thats been done on the subject other than the one from Barker and Lehner, 1973 where they say "Inverted Sugar is some times refered to as artifical honey as its composition and properties are nearly the same"

So on that basis, IMHO it has to be better than sugar syrup that has not been inverted.

please, if you put into google "honey bee nutrition", you get real laboratory rearches, where you what bee really needs. i have linked them all to this forum. It is nowhere said that bees need inverted sugar, because bees invert it itself. Bees can invert starch too into sugar they have amylase enzyme.

During this time when you try me, you find the truth from google. Wikipedia is not a quell where you get perfect information..

We just talked about protein. This forum decided that UK bees do not need extra protein. Sugar is as good protein as protein.

What is imho?


Sugar or honey has only energy meaning. Other nutritients honey bee gets prom pollen. Invert means only that cane sugar clugose + fructose is splitted into monosachrarides. Only that chemical bond is broken, nothing more.

And don't try me, I have studied biochemictry in University enough.


In Australian report "fatty bees scinny bees" it is said that normal sugar
is after honey second best sugar source.

 

[Winker]

please, if you put into google "honey bee nutrition", you get real laboratory rearches, where you what bee really needs. i have linked them all to this forum. It is nowhere said that bees need inverted sugar, because bees invert it itself. Bees can invert starch too into sugar they have amylase enzyme.

During this time when you try me, you find the truth from google. Wikipedia is not a quell where you get perfect information..

We just talked about protein. This forum decided that UK bees do not need extra protein. Sugar is as good protein as protein.

What is imho?


Sugar or honey has only energy meaning. Other nutritients honey bee gets prom pollen. Invert means only that cane sugar clugose + fructose is splitted into monosachrarides. Only that chemical bond is broken, nothing more.

And don't try me, I have studied biochemictry in University enough.


In Australian report "fatty bees scinny bees" it is said that normal sugar
is after honey second best sugar source.

I see no evidence of anything to say that inverted syrup is not as good as honey
IMHO In my humble opinion

 

[Finman]

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Finnish people eate sugar 30 kg/person a year, honey 0,5 kg a yar and about inverted sugar I do not if any eates it.

Is it good - of course.

If we ask, what Finnish bees eate in winter, I think that 80% sugar and 20% honey.

I think that 0% inverted sugar.



My not so humble opion.

 

[Midland Beek]

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Bees need not inverted sugar. Bee's stomach splits the sugar like do with humans.

Feed sugar syrup in autumn and bees do not split much of the sugar. Most is stored as sucrose.

 

[Finman]

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Bees need not inverted sugar. Bee's stomach splits the sugar like do with humans.

Feed sugar syrup in autumn and bees do not split much of the sugar. Most is stored as sucrose.

of course not. It is fast happening. 10 kg a day. You may pour syrup directly into combs.

But when a bee eates the sugar , it goes into blood circulation as fructose and glucose, and starch will be splitted to glucose.

What is wrong in feeding usual cane sugar as 99,99% of beeks do. Tell to me who inverts his feeeding sugar?

 

[Winker]

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Bees need not inverted sugar. Bee's stomach splits the sugar like do with humans.

of course not. It is fast happening. 10 kg a day. You may pour syrup directly into combs.

But when a bee eates the sugar , it goes into blood circulation as fructose and glucose, and starch will be splitted to glucose.

What is wrong in feeding usual cane sugar as 99,99% of beeks do. Tell to me who inverts his feeeding sugar?

what's up with you old man, can you not except the fact that others chose to feed their bees with something different?

A member of my BKA bought 2 ton of it and sold the lot to the local beekeepers and said he could have sold a further 1 ton of the stuff if he had it.

So it may be 99.99% of finish beekeepers don't use it, but quite a few here do.

 

[Finman]

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Jep old man. I started at the age of 15. after a month I am 65.

My bees get sugar syrup in September and live with to May as lons as willows give nectar
and pollen 9 months. They winter as well as with honey . Valuable is the pollen with winter food, because it has the magic.


you may invert as much as as you like. Mullin mallin.
But when you as from me, vain job as I use to say.

Further more, I know something about biochemistry. extra bonus.
But to debate with 2 hive owners, it is desparate, but I try.

And may I say, you feed your hives the whole winter what ever you get into mind.
If some one says something others are allready opening covers. = collective hystery

 

[Into the lions den]

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What is wrong in feeding usual cane sugar as 99,99% of beeks do. Tell to me who inverts his feeeding sugar?

Sorry Finman, but if that were near true then there would be no market for Api-invert, Ambrosia, Apisuc, Tetrapi, Invert bee, actually a long list of over 20 bee feed products that I know of sold in Europe. Widely used in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Estonia, Lithuania, Germany, France, Austria, Switzerland, and UK.....................and others too.

Maybe not in Finland perhaps.

We moved away from sucrose feed several years ago to the pre inverted products for various reasons, but daddy of them all is better wintering. I use about 40 tonnes a year of Apisuc, and have about 1.5% of all the bees in the UK..................extrapolating out from that, the three main products I know of send in the region of 600 tonnes into the UK between them. If fed at the same rate as mines then that means about 22.5% of UK bees now on invert products as their main feed. The proportion is growing every year.

No waste
No fermentation
No work making it up
Bees glossy with health after feeding it in autumn

Its great stuff, all the main brands, and given the fact that some Scandinavian countries are now mostly over to invert it is a real surprise that Finland, which seems to be a leader in the technology of overwintering bees in extreme climates, has not become a major user too.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

probably the majority of locals here use invert to feed for sheer convenience and the advantages it brings. We buy in bulk via local association, everyone just finds it easier and it works well. It is well received by all who use it.

 

[Finman]

Estonia, Lithuania, .

i wonder about you information source. These two countries have a economic level 1/5 that of Finland, or lower.

Where they get money to bye special stuff.

We use here normal cane sugar syrup.Lidl has now cheapest sugar.

We got too some Estonian sugar. Its price was half that of Finland.

 

[Finman]

Ookay....

I looked our biggest deliverers catalogue about bee forage

ambrosia 1,6 euro a kilo

67% sudar syrup, delivered with tank truck, 1,6 euro a sugar kilo

Lidl sugar 0,8 euro a kilo

and the advantage is in douple price - nothing

I am sure that Estonians do not bye 3-fold price sugar. They have not money.
Tens of thousands have moved just now to work to Finland because they have not work places there.


Bees do not understand about brands. Sugar is sugar.

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