Introducing queens to splits in Nucs.

[Brian Bush]

Following my recent request for advice on the forum regarding whether I should remove the workers from a queen cage and a comments forum members made on a similar thread can anyone confirm their queen introduction procedure,pleas?
Do You
Leave the escort workers in the cage?
When making a split place the new queen in immediaitely?
Do you do this late in the day?
Do you spray with sugar water or coat the queen cage and surrounding area with diluted honey?
Any other tips would be useful. I find removing the attendant workers a real chore particularly as I have a number arriving on the same day for myself and a novice beekeeper.
Many thanks in anticipation

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I never remove the attendants from the cage
Whether making up a nuc or just replacing an unwanted queen I put the new queen in immediately on splitting/removing the old queen
I do it at whatever time of the day suits me, usually morning after the postman has been, but often afternoon/evening depending on location of the apiary.
I don't spray, anything or slather anything in syrup,honey, or anything else
I leave the queen cage with the candy cap covered for 24 hours/overnight before uncovering it and leaving the bees set her free

 

[Brian Bush]

Thanks JBM

 

[madasafish]

I never remove the attendants from the cage
Whether making up a nuc or just replacing an unwanted queen I put the new queen in immediately on splitting/removing the old queen
I do it at whatever time of the day suits me, usually morning after the postman has been, but often afternoon/evening depending on location of the apiary.
I don't spray, anything or slather anything in syrup,honey, or anything else
I leave the queen cage with the candy cap covered for 24 hours/overnight before uncovering it and leaving the bees set her free

Ditto.

Handling queens - eg removing workers - is IMO stress for workers, Q and beekeeper. I know one VERY experienced beekeeper who does it this way and lost one very expensive queen which flew away.........................

(I did it in a small bathroom on the only occasion I did it..so if the Q did fly she would not get far. Far too much hassle and I don't carry a bathroom with me to the apiary)

 

[Dr. Abe]

I would agree with what has already been advised.

The first 2 times I used mated Queens I removed the attendants/escorts. It was very difficult and ever since I leave them in the cage and have had no problem with acceptance of the Queen.

I have some neighbors who have several thousand hives and they advised me to use tape such as white or blue masking tape (2 or so layers) to cover the Queen cage hole until there is little balling and no obvious rejection of the Queen. That is usually 24-36 hours after I put in the Queen. Once I uncover the hole it is usually 6-12 hours before the Queen is out depending on the size of the split/hive.

I am actually making a split/nuc today out of a strong and active overwintered hive. I am using a Carniolan Queen.

 

[ericbeaumont]

making a split/nuc today out of a strong and active overwintered hive. I am using a Carniolan Queen

Acceptance is improved if you allow the flying bees from the nuc to return home, as they will be the ones suspicious of your new queen.

I've used JBM's Immediate Method and had losses, and the Leave-Her-In-The-Cage-For-7-Days Method and had losses. When introduction has been successful, caged workers are usually dead in the cage.

Years ago I managed a couple of colonies temporarily for a chap who went away for anaphylaxis treatment, and as he handed over he said proudly I've just put a Carniolan queen into that one.

Unknown to me, the London mongrels had taken one look at her and superseded straight away. The daughter produced a vast and demonic colony of total pain and I was dreading having to find and kill her, but relieved when it was done.

What I learned was that purity+mongrel does not often end well. Years ago I came across an article by Beowulf Cooper in an old magazine that descibed the combos that worked and those that didn't, but I can't recall the magazine.

 

[Dr. Abe]

Acceptance is improved if you allow the flying bees from the nuc to return home, as they will be the ones suspicious of your new queen.

I've used JBM's Immediate Method and had losses, and the Leave-Her-In-The-Cage-For-7-Days Method and had losses. When introduction has been successful, caged workers are usually dead in the cage.

Years ago I managed a couple of colonies temprorarily for a chap who went away for anaphylaxis treatment, and as he handed over he said proudly I've just put a Carniolan queen into that one.

Unknown to me, the London mongrels had taken one look at her and superseded straight away. The daughter produced a vast and demonic colony of total pain and I was dreading having to find and kill her, but relieved when it was done.

What I learned was that purity+mongrel does not often end well. Years ago I came across an article by Beowulf Cooper in an old magazine that descibed the combos that worked and those that didn't, but I can't recall the magazine.

Yes it is best to let the older and field bees to fly back home. I was not referring to covering the hive entrance but the Queen cage.

Are you recommending that some time be given for that (the field bees leaving) to happen before the new Queen is introduced?

 

[ericbeaumont]

(the field bees leaving) to happen before the new Queen is introduced?

If you make up the nuc during the day and leave them in the same apiary until the close of the following day (assuming flying weather) the older flyers will by then have returned home.

If you close the nuc and move it to a new site, the flyers wll re-orinetate to that spot and will meet the new queen.

 

[Dr. Abe]

If you make up the nuc during the day and leave them in the same apiary until the close of the following day (assuming flying weather) the older flyers will by then have returned home.

If you close the nuc and move it to a new site, the flyers wll re-orinetate to that spot and will meet the new queen.

OK, Thanks!

 

[Swarm]

Yes it is best to let the older and field bees to fly back home. I was not referring to covering the hive entrance but the Queen cage.

Are you recommending that some time be given for that (the field bees leaving) to happen before the new Queen is introduced?

If you know when your queen is due to arrive you can get things ready. A double colony, you can arrange the brood between boxes and ensure the queen is in the bottom, fit an excluder between and leave them a week so there is no new brood in the top box. Either split this top box away and allow your field force to return home or a day before your queen arrives, exchange the queen excluder for a double screen board with an entrance to the rear to lose them. You should end up with a bunch of nurse bees and new ones emerging who are far more likely to accept a new queen.
I use this method for introducing virgin queens, you can put her in the top box, in a cage with the tab intact and let the bees take care of her before swapping the boards and breaking the tab. The acceptance is very good and the new colony benefits from the heat below. When she is laying I move them to a new location.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Acceptance is improved if you allow the flying bees from the nuc to return home, as they will be the ones suspicious of your new queen.

I've used JBM's Immediate Method and had losses, and the Leave-Her-In-The-Cage-For-7-Days Method and had losses. When introduction has been successful, caged workers are usually dead in the cage.

Years ago I managed a couple of colonies temporarily for a chap who went away for anaphylaxis treatment, and as he handed over he said proudly I've just put a Carniolan queen into that one.

Unknown to me, the London mongrels had taken one look at her and superseded straight away. The daughter produced a vast and demonic colony of total pain and I was dreading having to find and kill her, but relieved when it was done.

What I learned was that purity+mongrel does not often end well. Years ago I came across an article by Beowulf Cooper in an old magazine that descibed the combos that worked and those that didn't, but I can't recall the magazine.

He also talks about it in his book honey bees of the british isles do you have it?

 

[Murox]

He also talks about it in his book honey bees of the british isles do you have it?

That classic is out of print, but I see it has now been re-released by the Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders Association.

 

[ericbeaumont]

He also talks about it in his book honey bees of the british isles do you have it?

No, though I have read Brother Adam's book In Search of the Best Strains of Bees, which was a good read.