Interesting little article that popped up on my phone..

Beekeeping Forum

Help Support Beekeeping Forum:

Erichalfbee 

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
21,346
Reaction score
3,079
Location
Ceredigion
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
7

pargyle 

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
12,529
Reaction score
2,581
Location
Fareham, Hampshire UK
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
It was about time that the science caught up with those of us who have been preaching this mantra for years .... and a few that pre-dated us .... Bill Bielby in 1972 for instance .... here we are nearly 50 years on and the wheels are slowly turning !

There will still be those who are ready to say "I've been using timber hives since ..." you know the rest.
 

BigAshW 

House Bee
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
237
Reaction score
113
Location
Romford
Hive Type
commercial
Number of Hives
5
It was about time that the science caught up with those of us who have been preaching this mantra for years .... and a few that pre-dated us .... Bill Bielby in 1972 for instance .... here we are nearly 50 years on and the wheels are slowly turning !

There will still be those who are ready to say "I've been using timber hives since ..." you know the rest.
To be honest I'm still using timber hives. Predominantly because all my kit is commercial and nobody makes a full commercial poly hive yet. I don't want to have national supers on the maisemore hive because I can't be bothered with the faff of having different frame standards.

However I'm in the process of building solid underfloor entrances and deep multi purpose crown boards that will have a slab of insulation in once feeding is done. Will convert all my hives to that format over the next few months.
 

drdrday 

House Bee
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
289
Reaction score
205
Location
Nr Maidstone, Kent, UK
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
2 + 1 nuc
To be honest I'm still using timber hives.
Ditto. I chose timber hives, primarily because I was worried about the longevity of poly hives, and also the look. However, I think you can do a lot to improve wooden boxes to the bees liking. I use thick double slabs of Kingspan under the roof all year round, and run double brood boxes, with a kingspan insulating frame at either end of each BB.
 

Antipodes 

Drone Bee
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
1,166
Reaction score
417
Location
Tasmania
Hive Type
langstroth
I see words like "Could" , ......" potential impact", but a shame he didn't seem to have any results from studies/tests to show what are the actual differences in honey production, health of the bees etc. etc.
 

Ian123 

Queen Bee
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
3,193
Reaction score
870
Location
surrey
Hive Type
none
I’ve had poly hives since early 2000 so whilst not claiming to be the first! Being the son of a builder I also added poly insulation sheet to a couple of Nucs in the mid 80s. It’s great bees like them there are bonuses. But what I would ask is what harm a wooden hive does and as far as I can tell sweet fanny adams! Bees in wooden hives thrive. They should be sound water tight/resistant and far more protected from predators than other circumstances. All this work is telling us is wooden boxes leak heat nothing more. They didn’t even have bees in, bees make use of a myriad of cavities wild or man made and cope with these variations.
 

Swarm 

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
8,235
Reaction score
1,015
Location
South Wales
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
more than 30, less than 100.
I bought more Abelo roofs for the hives still under cedar roofs as they are very old and a couple were damp inside. Maybe I should have saved a couple of hundred quid and left them as they were as the strongest colonies are all those with cedar roofs and zero insulation.
Too many variables and impracticalities with poly and for no benefit, I sold my poly hives years ago.
Maybe we should run a test, put out bait hives, identical except one highly insulated and the other one not.
 

pargyle 

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
12,529
Reaction score
2,581
Location
Fareham, Hampshire UK
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
I’ve had poly hives since early 2000 so whilst not claiming to be the first! Being the son of a builder I also added poly insulation sheet to a couple of Nucs in the mid 80s. It’s great bees like them there are bonuses. But what I would ask is what harm a wooden hive does and as far as I can tell sweet fanny adams! Bees in wooden hives thrive. They should be sound water tight/resistant and far more protected from predators than other circumstances. All this work is telling us is wooden boxes leak heat nothing more. They didn’t even have bees in, bees make use of a myriad of cavities wild or man made and cope with these variations.
Yes ... bees will cope with just about anything you throw at them ... that's what they do - cope. Whether you can help them by making it easier .... that's something else.

Our former member Derek Mitchell has proved that bees are able to maintain their optimum hive temperatures better in insulated boxes ... I'm not going to argue with the science.
 

victor meldrew 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
6,637
Reaction score
184
Location
Wigan
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
I wonder if the article will be printed in the BBKA magazine? They grabbed and reprinted other stuff recently but this one might be a step too far for them.🤔
Since when did this forum become a hate rag to vent your spleen over your obvious hatred of the BBKA ?
It’s about beekeeping , let’s keep it that way !!
 

gmonag 

Field Bee
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
746
Reaction score
585
Location
Nr. Bury St Edmunds, UK
Hive Type
other
Number of Hives
6 Rose Hives
Quote from the article:
"In their study, the researchers calculated the heat loss of the boxes along with the thermal impact of certain beekeeping practices. All the experiments looked at the heat loss only from the boxes and their non-living components (honey, wax, etc.). “The reason I left bees out of this study was that there are far too many behaviours that occur in the hive for thermoregulation,” Cook says. “It is not an easily applicable constant!”"

I would have thought bees were the crux of the matter. They (and DerekM) have proven that an insulated box holds the heat in better than a wooden one. That is not disputed by me, but bees do not rely on the ambient temperature in the box being constant.
(Takes cover)
 

Ian123 

Queen Bee
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
3,193
Reaction score
870
Location
surrey
Hive Type
none
Quote from the article:
"In their study, the researchers calculated the heat loss of the boxes along with the thermal impact of certain beekeeping practices. All the experiments looked at the heat loss only from the boxes and their non-living components (honey, wax, etc.). “The reason I left bees out of this study was that there are far too many behaviours that occur in the hive for thermoregulation,” Cook says. “It is not an easily applicable constant!”"

I would have thought bees were the crux of the matter. They (and DerekM) have proven that an insulated box holds the heat in better than a wooden one. That is not disputed by me, but bees do not rely on the ambient temperature in the box being constant.
(Takes cover)
That’s the most sensible thing you’ve said😂(sorry)
 

Ian123 

Queen Bee
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
3,193
Reaction score
870
Location
surrey
Hive Type
none
Yes ... bees will cope with just about anything you throw at them ...
Bees do more than cope in wooden hives and certainly in our conditions. Not only do they cope they provide the beekeepers with a surplus of honey and bees, even many bbka members and that’s as good definition of thriving as can be. Couldn’t resist that! Obviously we can make their lives easier with modern materials. But then it’s a cost/return question and far from natural as some would consider. I never questioned any results DM came up with regarding the thermal side/efficiency, just some assumptions he made along the way. Ian
 
Last edited:

Ian123 

Queen Bee
BeeKeeping Supporter
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
3,193
Reaction score
870
Location
surrey
Hive Type
none
You were here at it’s inception?
Lol here or not she’s correct! and it was even a Mr RP and his moderating style that helped many a convert along the path. Wonder if he’ll manage the same in his next post.....oh hang on a minute!!
 

Gilberdyke John 

Queen Bee
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
4,097
Reaction score
439
Location
HU15 East Yorkshire
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
10
Since when did this forum become a hate rag to vent your spleen over your obvious hatred of the BBKA ?
It’s about beekeeping , let’s keep it that way !!
Hatred? Oh please! I have to be a member as my association deems it necessary but when push comes to shove there's a helluvalot of things they should (in my opinion) do such as resist the introduction of the legal requirements to use additive laced Oxalic acid with a brand name instead of the 99% pure material we used to good effect for years without incident. Then we had the fiasco and public laundering of the Basterfield conflict and a magazine which until recently stated the organisation opposed importation but gleefully accepted advertising for imported stocks. Let's not even open the can of worms about ventilation/matchsticks which is trotted out with monotonous regularity in said magazine.
Generally I ignore most of this and I would not claim everything is wrong but in terms of marking an essay "there is much room for improvement"
Your mileage may vary so I suggest we agree to disagree. If my contributions upset you there is an ignore facility.
 
Top