insulation

[Erichalfbee]

So final question (maybe!) Is it worth splashing out on a 6 inch lid?

In my opinion definitely yes but go one better and get the deep poly roofs that Abelo do. All my wooden hives are topped with those

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Does BBKA course includes such insights?

although if you go to Lampeter BKA they might give some serious insights into disease control

 

[Erichalfbee]

although if you go to Lampeter BKA they might give some serious insights into disease control

 

[Erichalfbee]

PS
Not my fault. I stay away.

 

[Gregs]

In my opinion definitely yes but go one better and get the deep poly roofs that Abelo do. All my wooden hives are topped with those

Brilliant i that website brings up all sorts of interesting opportunities! Thanks Presumably that does away with Kingspan etc? (Sorry really the last question!)

 

[Gregs]

PS
Not my fault. I stay away.

I sort of guessed it was a rhetorical question

 

[Erichalfbee]

Brilliant i that website brings up all sorts of interesting opportunities! Thanks Presumably that does away with Kingspan etc? (Sorry really the last question!)

I often put a 25mm square in but not always.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I often put a 25mm square in but not always.

gets rid of that unneeded inside rim I suppose

 

[Erichalfbee]

gets rid of that unneeded inside rim I suppose

Yes. I understand why they say it’s there but I’d never use it as such.
I can’t quite make my mind up whether the mould was made from a wooden National roof without understanding or whether the supposed purpose was a reaction to comments about it.
My Swienty roofs ( now not in use) don’t have that rim.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I can’t quite make my mind up whether the mould was made from a wooden National roof without understanding or whether the supposed purpose was a reaction to comments about it.

Option 1 I bet - it's a wonder there isn't a little secret compartment to keep matches in as well

 

[Jules59]

Hi everyone
I am a newbie in West Wales. Due to COVID not possible to attend a course but have ab experienced keeper helping me Bit I don't want to keep ringing him up every week!
I've been looking at some information on insulation over winter, something that doesn't seem to be mentioned in the books I have. I gather it goes over the crown board Is it necessary to create holes in it to correspond with the holes in the board as presumably the ventilation is still important?
Thanks

As a newbie I did just that. Big mistake. The holes allow warm, moist air to rise up and condense inside the colder roof, which becomes mouldy and causes drips to fall back onto the CB. Since then I make sure all holes & gaps are covered during winter and I've had no wet or mouldy roofs since.

 

[drdrday]

So final question (maybe!) Is it worth splashing out on a 6 inch lid?
Just to explain - we inherited a hive with a few bees in which attracted a swarm, but lost it last winter due to leaky roof Also bought a TBH early in the year which leaked so I am pretty paranoid about moisture now and hence reverted to new National till I am more confident.

I'd agree with Dani, definitely worth getting a deep roof.
My first hive (wooden national) had a standard 4" roof, and following advice on this forum I stuck a slab of Kingspan inside the roof. I also put an eke with a second slab of insulation under the roof for the first winter, but didn't like the fact that the standard roof didn't really come down far enough to properly cover the CB joint, so I was paranoid about it getting damp.
The bees made it through that first winter fine, but I decided my next hives would have deep roofs, and 8" deep roofs are now all I use (the old standard roof only comes out when it's the last option!). Plenty of depth to keep a slab of insulation in a deep roof year around, and still fully shelter the top of the brood box, even with an eke over it too.

 

[oliver90owner]

Simply put, you need more insulation above than around. Most aim for 50mm above. Sensible ones avoid top ventilation like the plague. A complete OMF is actually far more ventilation than required - but bees must have access to the dry floor to remove detritus when they are active.

 

[Gregs]

Great Thanks everyone
Peter

 

[SWHives]

No, you don't need the crown board holes for ventilation - best to close them off anyway whenever you're not using them for feeding. Majority consensus (you'll have learnt already that beekeepers never agree anything unanimously!), and common sense, is that bees are better overwintered without any top ventilation and with a nice slab of insulation on top of the crown board, under the roof.

Just like you at home, the bees don't want to lose all of that heat they've generated through gaping holes above them.

I keep a slap of 50mm insulation permanently glued into my hive roofs all year round. Going into winter most of my hives get a second slab of insulation in an eke between the crown board and roof so that bees have 100mm of insulation above them in total, but that's just me being overly protective .

Would you mind sharing a photo how the insulation is placed in the roof. Is the insulation board lying on the eke/crownboard underneath? If so would the mice etc not chew through it? Thanks

 

[drdrday]

Would you mind sharing a photo how the insulation is placed in the roof. Is the insulation board lying on the eke/crownboard underneath? If so would the mice etc not chew through it? Thanks

So, I use a clear crownboard, without any holes in it. Then I have a simple eke, that's 50mm deep, the same as the Kingspan insulation that's cut to fit inside it. This sits directly on top of the crownboard.
Then of course the roof goes on top. I use 8" deep wooden roofs, and they have another slab of Kingspan permanently glued into them all year around. I don't have any problems with mice.
Hope the pictures help...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Never had mice in the roof space either. There’s no room.

 

[SWHives]

Fantastic. Thanks for the quick response.

So, I use a clear crownboard, without any holes in it. Then I have a simple eke, that's 50mm deep, the same as the Kingspan insulation that's cut to fit inside it. This sits directly on top of the crownboard.
Then of course the roof goes on top. I use 8" deep wooden roofs, and they have another slab of Kingspan permanently glued into them all year around. I don't have any problems with mice.
Hope the pictures help...
View attachment 28602View attachment 28603

Fantastic. Thanks for the quick response. May I ask is the clear crownboard polycarbonate? I assume that you use a different crownboard when feeding?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ll throw my hat into the ring as well. I have polycarbonate crownboards too. They all have a central feeding hole which is blocked off when not feeding.

 

[drdrday]

Fantastic. Thanks for the quick response.

Fantastic. Thanks for the quick response. May I ask is the clear crownboard polycarbonate? I assume that you use a different crownboard when feeding?

Yes, they're not glass but polycarbonate crownboards (or quilts as they're often called). I usually get them from Maisemore. They do them with or without central feeder holes. I always get them without holes and just put on a traditional ply crown board with those feeder/porter escape holes on if I need to do any feeding. With my bees on double brood I don't often have to feed much but you can get them with a hole if you prefer and just block it off when you're not feeding.