Insulation in brood box

[Mandeville]

Could I use an old pillow (? enclosed in a binliner) to fill up space in a brood box?

I've a small (and probably failing ) colony on 6 frames in a 14x12 brood box. They're dummied down but I kindof feel it would be better to fill up the box with something rather than leave it empty. I'll put polystyrene over the crown board - but someone suggested that they may chew polystryrene up if it's in the broodbox.

 

[Erichalfbee]

EPS would be better. Just finish off the raw edges with some tape. You can buy matching aluminium tape but even packing tape works OK

 

[pargyle]

Could I use an old pillow (? enclosed in a binliner) to fill up space in a brood box?

I've a small (and probably failing ) colony on 6 frames in a 14x12 brood box. They're dummied down but I kindof feel it would be better to fill up the box with something rather than leave it empty. I'll put polystyrene over the crown board - but someone suggested that they may chew polystryrene up if it's in the broodbox.

Anything is better than leaving the space empty ... you should tape around the edges of your dummy boards if there are gaps to seal the brood area for winter ... then they can't get at the space outside. You are right to seal it up in a plastic bag though, you don't want anything that is going to soak up any moisture in there.

 

[BeeJayBee]

There's no reason why you can't fill a plastic bag with some insulation and put it in the gap to the side of the dummy board. I've used bubble wrap, cheap space blankets, polystyrene beads and S shapes - anything that will improve insulation without going mouldy.

 

[user 6228]

In the absence of direct convective path to the outside (e.g. match stick gaps), a space filled with air is only a heat path if it is has a convective path to a surface area in conductive contact with the outside.

 

[Swarm]

Back on topic.

Yes you can fill the gap with the old pillow.

 

[Mandeville]

Thank you - a lot of useful tips for me
I thought it would be a better use for the pillow than sending it to landfill in the dustbin.

 

[Madge]

In the absence of direct convective path to the outside (e.g. match stick gaps), a space filled with air is only a heat path if it is has a convective path to a surface area in conductive contact with the outside.

Derek, you'll probably thump your head a bit more, but could you please explain if I'm wrong in thinking that that space filled with air still needs to be heated, and that is is therefore better to fill it with something?

As for a surface 'in conductive contact with the outside' - if it is very wet wooden hive, could the outside of that hive become a bit fridge-like and draw heat away?

Kitta

 

[user 6228]

Derek, you'll probably thump your head a bit more, but could you please explain if I'm wrong in thinking that that space filled with air still needs to be heated, and that is is therefore better to fill it with something?

As for a surface 'in conductive contact with the outside' - if it is very wet wooden hive, could the outside of that hive become a bit fridge-like and draw heat away?

Kitta

the actual heat capacity of air is the square root of zip. Its thermal conductivity is almost zip. but when it starts to move then the heat moves with it.
most insulation is just air being stopped from moving.
If you get the air warm that isnt the problem its just "money in the bank" but if that air then loses the heat by contacting a cold surface then you "lose the money"
The key point is to stop air moving from warm to colder surfaces. The surface area of those exposed colder surfaces is the thng you need to minimise, by covering them with trapped air and stopping warmer air moving across them.

 

[richardbees]

Could I use an old pillow (? enclosed in a binliner)

By all means use the pillow to fill up any empty space....... but not in a bin liner as that will probably create condensation.

 

[Madge]

Could I use an old pillow (? enclosed in a binliner)

By all means use the pillow to fill up any empty space....... but not in a bin liner as that will probably create condensation.

I think, without the bin liner, the pillow might get soggy and that's not going to help.
Kitta

 

[richardbees]

the pillow might get soggy

kitta, you may well have a point there, depending on what's in the pillow!...I always use a folded wad of hessian in similar situations. Making a secondary ply dummy board fitting close to the walls will help.

 

[oliver90owner]

but not in a bin liner as that will probably create condensation.

Interesting. Perhaps you could explain how a plastic bag can 'create' condensation. Temperature changes at interfaces and humidity cause condensation. Neither appear to be present in this scenario, let alone both.

RAB

 

[pargyle]

I think, without the bin liner, the pillow might get soggy and that's not going to help.
Kitta

The pillow will get damp ... even if there is a non absorbent foam filling the cotton slip will take up atmospheric moisture and you will, almost certainly, get mildew. Seal it in a bin-liner .. or get rid of the pillow slip and just use the actual pillow fillings in the bin liner.

 

[Madge]

Yes, I should have said 'will' because I do know that.

 

[richardbees]

Interesting. Perhaps you could explain how a plastic bag can 'create' condensation

The colony side of the plastic will be warm and humid - the other side of the plastic will probably become cold enough in the Winter to CREATE a temperature difference big enough to form condensation on the warm and humid side....."dew point" etc

Can't you remember cold bedrooms with condensation on the inside of the window in the morning?

 

[oliver90owner]

Can't you remember cold bedrooms with condensation on the inside of the window in the morning?

Yeah, I know that but it has nothing to do with this scenario.

Pillow in plastic bag behind dummy board here. Not a sheet of glass in the bedroom of a warm-blooded mammal or more. Talk about trying to duck the issue!

 

[Amari]

Interesting. Perhaps you could explain how a plastic bag can 'create' condensation
Can't you remember cold bedrooms with condensation on the inside of the window in the morning?

Yes, and the wonderful flower and foliage patterns that appeared in frosty weather. Decades since I've seen that.

 

[drstitson]

why not splash out on a proper 6 frame poly nuc in the current sale?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes, and the wonderful flower and foliage patterns that appeared in frosty weather. Decades since I've seen that.

I only remember my lip frozen to the pillow and the quick run down three flights of stairs where my mother was warming my underpants in front of the coal fire whilst making toast with the other hand - oh to be twenty-one again!