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Insulating quilts from Th%*nes

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Biddly 

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I would be interested to know if anyone uses these as top insulation over winter in their hives. If so, how many have you used in one hive ? What configuration ( over fondant in an eke / on crownboard under roof ) ? What are the pros and cons of using them. Thank you and i look forward to reading your comments.
 

oliver90owner 

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Are replies from non-users acceptable on this thread?

I do not use them. Not even looked at them. I use the KISS principle and buy cheap and cheerful sheets of EPS. Broken sheets, too, if at the right price! Less than 50p for a 460mm square for a hive, in 25mm thickness.

RAB
 

Biddly 

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I welcome and would like users and non- users comments, thoughts and observations please plus alternative insulating suggestions. Thank you.
 

drstitson 

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do what everyone else does and grab some kingspan or similar from a building site skip.

super or eke containing 1x 50mm thick square with fondant cut out then another 50mm thick square on top.
 

oliver90owner 

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I have deeper roofs (my own build) which will easily allow 50 mm of EPS insulation over the solid 9mm ply crownboards (which don't need to be water permeable, as my hive ventilation is all via the OMF).

I might use kingspan if I found some laying around and legally looking for a home.

RAB
 

itma 

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I would be interested to know if anyone uses these as top insulation over winter in their hives. If so, how many have you used in one hive ? What configuration ( over fondant in an eke / on crownboard under roof ) ? What are the pros and cons of using them. Thank you and i look forward to reading your comments.
The "insulated quilt using space age materials" (catalogue page 15) is cheap (£4) and thin, so potentially easily stored.

Its a heat reflector (like a survival 'space' blanket).
It might even be multilayer, sandwiched with thin layers of foam and/or membranes - like the now somewhat discredited building insulation "Tri Iso".

But blocks of foam insulation (brands include Kingspan, Celotex and Xtratherm) faced with a heat-reflective layer of aluminium foil will provide better insulation (if that's what you want).
Disadvantages are that you need an eke or super to contain the depth, and that its a lump to potentially store through the summer (or else dispose and replace). Whereas T's product looks like its thin enough to sit in the normal roofspace. I don't think they expect you to be combining it with fondant!

I wouldn't worry about Th*rnes suggestion of turning their blanket over for the summer. Whitewash your hive roof for the summer if it's too dark and getting too hot in the sun.
 

djg 

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I have previously overwintered 2 hives on T******s using a silvery quilt on each, with a super under the BB and an OMF on a my windy rooftop. During the severe weather last winter, I roughly tied a sheet of bubble-wrap around the hives, more a wind-break than insulation. No losses to report to date.

This year I bought a roll of aluminium insulation (dimpled plastic air-pockets wrapped in durable aluminium) and cut out twice as many shapes as I needed (4 hives and a nuc), then doubled up the sheets by joining them with aluminium sticky tape. I intend to use these once the weather is forecast to fall to zero. I expect that these home-made quilts will perform as well as T******s.

I would be interested (for the sake of the bees) if anyone thought that this would not be advisable/adequate. In particular, should I add a thin layer of polystyrene - and above or below the home-made quilts ?

Sorry to answer your question with another question....
 

itma 

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...This year I bought a roll of aluminium insulation (dimpled plastic air-pockets wrapped in durable aluminium) ... doubled up the sheets by joining them with aluminium sticky tape.
... should I add a thin layer of polystyrene - and above or below the home-made quilts ?
Insulation would go above your heat reflector, so the radiant heat mirror doesn't get cold and provide a condensation site above the bees.
And "a thin layer" won't provide much insulation.
And I learn from the forum that bees can/do chew packaging poly, so prevent bee-access to that insulation.

Check out the forum advice to use building insulation board. Ask for a sample/offcut. Then look at how tiny its bubbles are, for such a lightweight material. Short of exotica like aerogel and space-shuttle tiles, its about the highest performance insulation you are likely to find - so you don't need great thickness.
You could use some above your aluminium if you wished.
 

MuswellMetro 

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if you look at U vlaues and construction methods for roof of biuldings then 150mm of Kingspan foil backed with 25mm void = two reflective layers of Th**nes type insualtion plus 25mm voids sandwiching 70mm kingspan foil backed

that is assuming a sealed void, Thornes insulation is less effecient if touching the crown board without a 25mm sealed void

The use or EPS or Kingspan in supers ?, well i just cut 46cm square slabs, no need for a super....EPS and kingspan don't absorb rain or rot

but then the november BBKA news is telling us not to insulated, keep on open OMF and use matchstick :biggrinjester:
 

Winker 

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I use this stuff:





•Thermal Resistance up to 1.455m²/kW
•Suitable for Walls
•Roofs & Under Suspended Floors
•Typically Used for New Builds
•Refurbishment & to Insulate Behind Dry Lining
•Lightweight
•Time-Saving
Equivalent to 55mm Polystyrene
•NHBC Accepted
 

itma 

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...
The use or EPS or Kingspan in supers ?, well i just cut 46cm square slabs, no need for a super....EPS and kingspan don't absorb rain or rot
...
Interesting!

Do you bother to put a roof on top, or just a weight? (Or would a strap hold it in place adequately?) Because if its really that fully weatherproof ... Hmmmm ... Interesting!

Only problem I see is wet getting in under the insulation (wherever the foil has wrinkles*), above the crownboard - which a super and roof should prevent. But if you edged the Kingspan with weather stripping of some sort ...

* My Xtratherm boards have got distinct wrinkles in its foil. Dunno about other brands.
 

Winker 

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winker - isn't that the discredited type of stuff?
Not sure if anyone has "discredited" It. When building new homes, its still widely used rather than Polystyrene for insulation. I got some for a building project a few months back from Screwfix. The details i gave were lifted directly from the Screwfix website, so i don't think they would be allowed to make false claims
 

djg 

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Thanks, itma....it looks like a Kingspan expedition later this month for me, then! And thanks very much for the condensation thought!

Winker, yes, that's the stuff which I have been using for my home-made quilts, using double thickness for the finished item
 
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itma 

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winker - see itma post "like the now somewhat discredited building insulation "Tri Iso". "
Even better take a look at this (government-sponsored) report ...
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/multi-foil-insulation_july2005.pdf

Widely differing values have been given for the thermal performance of this product. The manufacturer
commissioned a report
from TRADA Technology Ltd [1], which states "“...TRI-ISO SUPER 9 had insulating
properties equivalent to mineral wool (glass) of 200 mm. This provides thermal performance to the
equivalent of an overall thermal resistance (RT) of 5 m2K/W based on a recognised international thermal
conductivity value for standard glass wool insulation of 0.04 W/m·K." While this comparative test
contrasted two insulation systems it did not provide any actual U-values.

In 2004 Celotex Ltd commissioned NPL to undertake a hot-box test [2], which gave a measured thermal
resistance of 1.71 m2K/W, about one-third of that indicated
by TRADA.

This paper reports on some in-situ U-value measurements that have been carried out on wall, floor and roof
constructions that contained TRI-ISO SUPER 9 as the principal insulation layer, ...
<snip several pages>
....

Conclusions

For these constructions incorporating a multi-foil insulation, the in-situ U-value measurements reported in
this paper are in good agreement with the NPL guarded hot-box measurements
for the same product, and
are not consistent with a thermal resistance of 5.0 m2K/W.
What they are saying is that - in practice, installed - Tri Iso is only 1/3 as good as its manufacturer claims it is.
 

Winker 

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Even better take a look at this (government-sponsored) report ...
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/multi-foil-insulation_july2005.pdf


What they are saying is that - in practice, installed - Tri Iso is only 1/3 as good as its manufacturer claims it is.
I do see that the one i got from Screw fix says:

Thermal Resistance up to 1.455m²/kW

The one Itma is referring to says:

a thermal resistance of 5.0 m2K/W

so i guess they have scaled down there claim to just under 1/3
 

oliver90owner 

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Not checked them out but the thermowrap from screwf*x says the same equivalent EPS, but only about 2/3rds the thermal resistance. One of them is wrong!
 

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