Inspecting double brood

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BeeJayBee 

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Taken from this thread http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22281. I didn't want to stray too far from the original question.

Hi thorn, one thing I have learnt with running on double brood is that you hardly ever need to inspect the lower BB only if you are concerned. The more experienced simply split the two BB’s like a hinge and if they don’t see evidence of QC’s on the bottom of the top frames then that’s the inspection over. I have done a couple of inspections like this but it takes a bit of nerve.
If you do find queen cells at the bottom of the frames in the upper brood box do you then check each frame more carefully, and also those in the lower box?

If not, what's the normal thing to do?
 

itma 

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The idea behind the "tipping" inspection seems to be that the beek's time is money.
And that it is then a matter of weighing the cost of the beek's time against the chance of missing swarm cells that aren't in the obvious location at the bottom of the upper frames.

Playing the odds and time-cost effectiveness don't generally shape the way that hobby beeks enjoy their hobby.
 

mbc 

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Doesn't this "tipping" cause less disturbance?
Depends, some times this "tipping" aggressively rips apart a whole pile of drone brood between the boxes. Swarming preparation check and varroa level check in one quick move :rolleyes: but in these cases I usually take more time cleaning the mess up so its easier next time.

And yes, if charged q cells are seen then I put the top box aside and go through the bottom frames, replace the top box and go through that too.
 
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drstitson 

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as per mbc - the tipping of top box is a rapid, effective screening tool.

once a hive is found making preps for swarming then FULL inspection needed as per normal with necessary interventions as desired.
 

Finman 

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I have no excluder and I use in middle summer 3 brood.

If something exists in douple brood, you see it all in upper brood box.
No need to look lower.

When you see queen cells, they are going to swarm. Do at once the false swarm and troubles are over.

I do not brake queen cells. I let them kill each others.

I have queen cells often in supers too.

The most important is to join hive parts when swarming fever is over.

.
 

Finman 

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In lower box there are those angry foragers and it is not nice to disturbe them.

.
 

enrico 

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To stop drone brood between the box's put the top box at right angles to the bottom box, it causes far less disturbance, makes them easier to part, prevents lifting bottom frame that has been stuck to upper frame and it doesn't worry the bees at all.....
E
 

fiftyjon 

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To stop drone brood between the box's put the top box at right angles to the bottom box, it causes far less disturbance, makes them easier to part, prevents lifting bottom frame that has been stuck to upper frame and it doesn't worry the bees at all.....
E
Depends, some times this "tipping" aggressively rips apart a whole pile of drone brood between the boxes. Swarming preparation check and varroa level check in one quick move :rolleyes: but in these cases I usually take more time cleaning the mess up so its easier next time.

And yes, if charged q cells are seen then I put the top box aside and go through the bottom frames, replace the top box and go through that too.
If the bee space is correct between the bottom of the frames in the top box and the tops of the frames in the bottom box, would they put comb between?
 

Finman 

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If the bee space is correct between the bottom of the frames in the top box and the tops of the frames in the bottom box, would they put comb between?
I thought the same, but seldom bees act as planned. You may meet there what ever.

If you give a free zone where bees can make brood combs, it clearly reduces their earger to make drone combs here and there. Dronecombs makes inpection slower if they are everywhere.
 

mbc 

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If the bee space is correct between the bottom of the frames in the top box and the tops of the frames in the bottom box, would they put comb between?
Yup, especially if their expanding fast.
 

cweaton 

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I'd certainly be interested to hear of instances where queen cells have been found in the bottom box only of a double brood/brood and a half arrangement. I guess this might be more common during supercedure.

I've tended to find that most of the cells are on the bottom of the upper box, with the rest near the top of the lower one (in a brood and a half arrangement with the half at the top).
 

Finman 

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You can only do that with a square box.


Which boxes do you use?
Poly Langstroths- I like queens which lay 2 boxes full. Normally lowest box is full of pollen.

In late summer I push the queen to 2 boxes and they consume the pollen store for wintering bees.

.
 
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itma 

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There are only one Langstroth size. ...

We use American standard
Weren't you saying that Russian Langstroths were different?

I have the impression that there are various subtle variations and the 'standard' isn't really and truly standard.
 

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OK so tipping is a fast way of inspecting for swarm cells so which way do you inspect of foul brood, It would bee interesting to know how often this is done with a double BB checking every frame
 

Finman 

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OK so tipping is a fast way of inspecting for swarm cells so which way do you inspect of foul brood, It would bee interesting to know how often this is done with a double BB checking every frame
3-hive owner thinks about that?

What does 700 hive owner? In USA they allways have 2 brood.
No one inspect every frame and now one start to search fould brood by inpecting every frame.

If you have 700 hives, you have couple of minutes time to touch one hive.
- 700 hives in 10 days cycles
- 70 hive in a day
- 7 hives in hour /10 hour work day

One professional said that (2 men) they have 10 hive groups and they have 15 minutes to each group

.

.
 
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