I'm confused about feeding newly-hived swarms

[Headnavigator]

I've just started this year with two donated swarms. The advice I've been given by BK friends and that I read on here ranges from 'don't feed' to 'must feed'. Fed first colony on heavy syrup as instructed but withdrew it after three weeks as I could see conflict between syrup storage and brood space. Two thirds of frames have been drawn but not the rest yet, however lots of sealed brood so situation now OK I hope.
Second colony I didn't feed for first week but could see comb-building was extremely slow so have put light syrup on and they are taking it but again storing it as well as now getting on with drawing comb. There is plenty of forage around including about 20 acres of beans nearby.
How does one best resolve a conflict between feeding and syrup-storing? What do you experienced beeks do?

 

[enrico]

Personally I feed until they have started to draw comb and then stop feeding if there is plenty of forage around. It depends a little on how quickly you need to build the bees up. If you are desperate to get them going before a big nectar flow then feed well but if you are happy to let them get on with it then keep an eye on things and trust to nature. You seem to have done everything right. Those are my thoughts anyway!
E

 

[Mike a]

As you've found yourself, its a balancing act of feeding if required but only feeding enough to give them a head start on drawing out frames but not to much which is then stored and could block the queen from being able to lay.

 

[mbc]

Keep feeding untill all the foundations drawn would be my advice. If your worried about laying space then consider undrawn foundation as zero space untill theyve drawn it (which takes them time, lots of bees and energy )and drawn foundation with stores as very accesible laying space so long as there's plenty of other young brood for them to feed said stores to ( takes them less time, bees or energy)

 

[johnandyrob]

I was always told if you need to feed use 1 - 1 syrup because they use it not 2-1 because they store it

 

[Busybee123]

I was always told if you need to feed use 1 - 1 syrup because they use it not 2-1 because they store it

I had to stop feeding mine 1-1 syrup because they were storing it. It is a difficult balancing act.

Wish my bees would read the books and do what they are supposed to do!

 

[nelletap]

I was always told if you need to feed use 1 - 1 syrup because they use it not 2-1 because they store it

Thanks for this comment - for me it explained something so it was like a penny dropping!

 

[nelletap]

Thanks for this comment - for me it explained something so it was like a penny dropping!

The moment this was posted a contradiction was visible - isn't beekeeping fun?

 

[Midland Beek]

To get combs drawn you have to feed is flawed thinking. You are supposed to manipulate the frames to get then drawn quickly. Manipulate meaning re-position/re-order.

 

[Busybee123]

To get combs drawn you have to feed is flawed thinking. You are supposed to manipulate the frames to get then drawn quickly. Manipulate meaning re-position/re-order.

How do you manipulate frames to encourage drawing comb?

I've noticed that as I add foundation, the bees tend to draw out the side of the frame facing the brood nest first. In fact they can start drawing out a second frame on the side facing the brood nest before drawing out the side of the first frame facing away from the brood nest.

 

[bushman1872]

in your case just turn the frames around, so face the undrawn side in towards the brood. Don't put un drawn foundation or a frames of stores in the middle of the brood as you can end up seperating the brood and then those chappesess get neglected. Bees at the bottom of the garden has a good diagram and explanation on how to manipulate your frames.

 

[oliver90owner]

It is bees that collect the nectar that is converted to honey if in excess.

A swarm need bees. That means brood. That means as many house bees as they can manage to service the brood. No point in feeding carbohydrate if they urgently need protein. They take carbohydrate with them (at swarming), but not a lot of protein.

I don't feed a swarm immediately and often find by the time I might get to feeding them they are comb building like it's going out of fashion! Any nectar stored and I don't keep stuffing them with sugar. Common sense approach again, I suppose. If there is a shortage of forage, you should be knowing that and feeding accordingly. If not, let them get on with it - they have been doing it for many a year.

Another example of where rigid rules don't apply. If everything was fixed, we would be out of a job - someone would by now have developed the software for a computer to do it all automatically.

Last year a swarm filled a 14 x 12 box of foundation in three weeks with absoutely no intervention from me. Not a skerret of space left. This year they might starve. I am the beekeeper and it is my job to see that they don't starve. I want to collect honey later in the season, not remove the sugar I have fed them. If they don't build fast enough for a harvest for me, that is OK - as long as they have enough bees and stores to survive the winter and get a good start next year.

Does any of that make sense?

RAB

 

[MuswellMetro]

I don't normaly feed swarms, but as it is a near gale here and the weather is predicted to stay that way for a few days, i have given my large prime swarms 1litre thin 1:1 syrup ( ie 1lb to pint not 1kg to 1L) and 500ml to a caste

 

[Poly Hive]

Far be it for me to contradict a book but putting a frame of foundation in the middle of an expanding brood nest, over 6 frames of brood that is is an excellent way of getting your foundation drawn and expanding the brood.

I have even had foundation drawn whilst autumn feeding.

And as for swarms, let them alone to get on with it unless the weather is truly dire for a week.

PH

 

[Ed Woods]

My new swarm has drawn four and half frames since Thursday and they are busy filling the drawn comb with honey - they have started drawing comb on the sixth frame - I havn't fed them as they are out foraging and bringing back large amounts of pollen. I will next look at them on Friday to see if the Queen is laying. I havn't bothered feeding as they appear to be doing so well on their own.

Although as its blowing a gale out there should I feed them - if so - how much?

 

[Poly Hive]

Just leave them alone.

PH

 

[Busybee123]

in your case just turn the frames around, so face the undrawn side in towards the brood...

Sounds logical - I'll give it a go. Thanks.

 

[Busybee123]

Far be it for me to contradict a book but putting a frame of foundation in the middle of an expanding brood nest, over 6 frames of brood that is is an excellent way of getting your foundation drawn and expanding the brood......

Thanks PH, very interesting, but not sure I'm confident enought to try that yet. Suppose you would need a strong colony to do this so that both halves of the brood would be self supporting?

Would the Queen be happy to cross over between the two halves?

I suppose if they drew out the comb quickly she could lay in the new comb and therefore make the broodnest whole again.

 

[oliver90owner]

Ed Woods,

should I feed them - if so - how much?

Just prior to that you say:

"and they are busy filling the drawn comb with honey"

Simple. If stores are increasing, don't feed. If stores are static, be aware of the situation and monitor more carefully. If stores are decreasing, feed before the stores are depleted. Not rocket science. Often obserations outside the hive will give a good indication - weather, forage, hive activity. If not sure, do a quick check. Better to feed than they starve, but like I say, it is your decision 'on the ground' so as to speak. Might depend on where your colony is situated - back garden or at an apiary several miles away; or time before next check.

It is only the people out there with just a couple or three colonies that should have any bother deciding. The people with more hives will get a feel for the local foraging opportunities, from their other colonies.

RAB

 

[mbc]

Personally I prefer them to use sugar to draw foundation rather than honey which I quite like to eat. Bees will ignore feed if there's an adequate nectar flow and a new swarm will almost invariably take down loads of feed ( if given the chance ) and convert it into beautifully drawn out combs. If they are slowed down for a month by inadequate supplies of nectar/sugar/carbohydrate then perfectly drawn combs dont allways happen - to me its a no brainer = feed swarms