Huge difference in water content

[enrico]

This is a first for me.... Took off 18 frames of honey. All capped.
Left overnight to settle before jarring today
Took water reading from first jar....18%
Took water reading from top of settling tank.....24%!!!!!!
Did the warm weather separate it?
Did the humid weather just make the top layer absorb water?
Took readings every five jars. Got 40 jars of good honey at 18%.
It went downhill from there!
The rest I have put in rapid feeders and the bees can have it back!
Anybody else ever found this phenomenon? It might be a warning to take several readings!
E

 

[beepeggy]

Have you calibrated your refractometer recently?

 

[Antipodes]

Capped honey can sometimes be "too wet" but ......how good is the refractometer? Is the humidity above 55 per cent?

 

[captain666]

Hi enrico.

The specific gravity of honey is about 1.4 so it is much heavier than water. The honey with less moisture will find it's way to the bottom.

Stirring should sort this out to give a balanced moisture content.

Yes, honey absorbs water, it being hygroscopic. That's why apart from adding flavour, it keeps cakes 'fresh.'
I doubt that's what happened for your readings.

Fred.

 

[enrico]

Capped honey can sometimes be "too wet" but ......how good is the refractometer? Is the humidity above 55 per cent?

The refractometer is fine, on each separate reading after five jars you could see the water content rising. My honey extracting room is cool and dry, showing 55% humidity. but the weather is very humid here at the moment.

 

[enrico]

Hi enrico.

The specific gravity of honey is about 1.4 so it is much heavier than water. The honey with less moisture will find it's way to the bottom.

Stirring should sort this out to give a balanced moisture content.

Yes, honey absorbs water, it being hygroscopic. That's why apart from adding flavour, it keeps cakes 'fresh.'
I doubt that's what happened for your readings.

Fred.

I know I get different readings from top to bottom which is why I always measure both and generally if the top is ok I know the rest is fine but this discrepancy off one and a half supers from the same hive was, in my experience, really unusual.
I didn't dare stir it as i had my suspicions that the whole barrel would then be too high in moisture content! At least I got 40 good jars!

 

[Antipodes]

Perhaps you have a lot of ground flora honey this year...perhaps clover? If you bottled half at 18 per cent, I wonder, would the lot (if stirred) have been 20 to 21 per cent? I reckon that is quite possible, particularly if they filled the frames quickly in a good flow....and think it more likely than the honey absorbing too much moisture from the air in such a short time.

 

[drex]

This has caught me out in the past. As mentioned, drier honey is more dense and sinks to the bottom. I always stir the buckets before taking a reading. I do the shake test at the apiary, and spot check frames as I extract, and take a final reading once in the bucket. I do not want to fill jars then have to empty them. I also will mix a higher water content bucket with one giving a lower reading ( both will be under 20% anyway) and end up with a more acceptable reading

 

[enrico]

This has caught me out in the past. As mentioned, drier honey is more dense and sinks to the bottom. I always stir the buckets before taking a reading. I do the shake test at the apiary, and spot check frames as I extract, and take a final reading once in the bucket. I do not want to fill jars then have to empty them. I also will mix a higher water content bucket with one giving a lower reading ( both will be under 20% anyway) and end up with a more acceptable reading

That's exactly what I do normally. But I have never bothered measuring capped frames until after they are extracted. As I did this time! Oh well. After 40 years of abstracting honey I thought I had seen it all!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Oh well. After 40 years of abstracting honey I thought I had seen it all!

I think quite a few have been abstracting honey this season - that is "existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence "

 

[derekm]

If there is any crystallisation then remaining liquid honey can have a higher water content.

 

[WoodenBeam]

Make sure you have a good turnover and sell it quickly.................

 

[enrico]

Make sure you have a good turnover and sell it quickly.................

It's outside the gate now!!!!

 

[enrico]

I think quite a few have been abstracting honey this season - that is "existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence "

Without wishing to sound patronising...wow that is deep for you!!!!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Without wishing to sound patronising...wow that is deep for you!!!!

Having studied English to A level standard (always been good with foreign languages ) as well as Welsh and scripture, I can still recall the occasional lucid moment in class

 

[enrico]

Having studied English to A level standard (always been good with foreign languages ) as well as Welsh and scripture, I can still recall the occasional lucid moment in class

The only thing I remember is amo amas amat amamus amatis amant then I got thrown out into the Greek mythology class!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The only thing I remember is amo amas amat amamus amatis amant then I got thrown out into the Greek mythology class!

I used to love Latin but the conjugations and declensions did my head in (old Mrs Adams was definitely 'old school, lovely lady but as nutty as a fruitcake) so I drifted out of that, although it did help me when, being very very drunk in Rome during the 150th anniversary of unification and the Taxi driver having no English, I managed to direct him back to our hotel using Latin.
One of the few times I've impressed SWMBO - the first was on our honeymoon at Mont St Michel when my sketchy hang of both Latin and French helped me managed to translade a big bronze plaque outside the monastery!!
Unfortunately, she was less impressed the following day when I caused the young girl manning a rotisserie in Dinard to start crying when I inadvertently asked for a hot, spit roasted prostitute instead of chicken!!

 

[Antipodes]

Enrico....I know your question was about the big difference between the top of the tank reading and the bottom, but I'm intrigued about such high readings in your capped honey and the suspense is too much for me. Do you have an idea as to what the nectar source was?

 

[WoodenBeam]

Moisture content has always intrigued me. If the Honey is capped the bees have decided that’s it - if it’s good enough for the bees I’d say it was good enough for us. With tech advances and it would seem most people having the use of a refractometer (made to very high standards, shipped on a slow boat from China, bought off flea bay and calibrated with a knock off adulterated olive oil blend ) are we now discovering that different sourced honeys do in fact have different moisture contents - sometimes in excess of what is considered too high?
When was the decision made regarding water content, is it time this was reviewed? Having had a brief look moisture content is mentioned in the 1976 regulations - if this hasn’t actually been reviewed since then and just regurgitated continually I would say its overdue (or do I really care?).
Don't get me wrong, if Honey isn’t fit for purpose fair enough & I’m certainly against any adulteration or misrepresentation but maybe the advice should be to use the higher moisture content variety’s first and only store the lower moisture content (maybe premium quality) stuff for future use?

 

[drex]

The regulations are only relevant if you sell honey. You can give honey away with any moisture content you like. The problem is that the higher the water content the more likely it is to ferment. To be absolutely sure of no fermentation water content needs to be 17 or less. Between 17 and 20 the likelihood of fermentation depends on the yeast level. Over 20%, there is always a danger of fermentation independent of the yeast level.
Hence 20% does seem a logical level.