How much winter stores needed in a 14x12 brood box

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simonorchard 

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Can anyone advise please. The answer will no doubt depend on the size of my colonies, but I'm trying to get an idea of how many frames of stores on 14x12 will be enough for my colonies.
Currently I have two colonies as a result of an artificial swarm in May. So they are not huge. But both have pretty much completely filled and capped all brood frames with stores where there is no brood. One colony has no super on, and one has a half filled super which I am just about to take off.

From looking it would seem like the 14x12s are approx double the size of a standard super frame so therefore twice the weight - so 5 full frames of 14X12 is approx the weight of a full super with 10 frames. Any advice greatly appreciated.

And a second question If I may: If the hives are left with no supers, and the brood chamber is completely full with brood and stores - where will the bees store any nectar that they are still bringing in over the next month or so. I know the forage isn't good but surely they are still bringing in some nectar?

many thanks
 

Finman 

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And a second question If the brood chamber is completely full with brood and stores - where will the bees store any nectar that they are still bringing in over the next month or so. I know the forage isn't good but surely they are still bringing in some nectar?

many thanks
I suppose that in London bees must be feeded for winter in late September or in early Ochtober. At least not earlier.

But if bees get ouside food and continue brooding, put the super on and feed the hive full. It is is not full, they will not cap stores.

Later bees collect stores from peripheria into the brood area.
 

rae 

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They should be reducing the amount of brood now, so the number of frames devoted to brood should fall, and these will be filled with stores. So nectar this month will be shoved into the empty brood cells as the brood emerges. My colonies that had 8-9 frames of 14x12 brood are now down to about 6 - and the stores are being put away in the recently emerged cells. They know winter is coming....

A full 14x12 (small brood nest, rest stores) should be more than enough to over winter in London. The bees will manage the ratio of stores to brood themselves unless they are crazy italian bees, in which case they may still be going for growth in October...then they will need feeding!
 

Finman 

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Half of my hives has (in Finland) still 5-6 boxes. We have dry summer and brood area is only one box in August. That brood area will be size of the winter cluster.

I reduce the size of hives to that one box and I try get bees into that one box. If it is too small I give another box.

If the hive has 1,5 box brood now, it needs 2 box for winter.

During next two weeks I put all my colonies in winter position and start feeding. Feeding must be fast that they do not start brooding again.

We have not here palm trees like in London.

It is really important that bees know that winter is coming. It is a good sign.
 

barratt_sab 

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From memory, Cramp suggests that:

BS brood frame full of stores = 5.5lbs
BS super frame full of stores = 3.5lbs

Desired weight of stores for UK = 33lbs - 66lbs

This would suggest that a 14x12 would hold about 9lbs of stores and that you'd want 4 - 7 frames.
 

oliver90owner 

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A full box, or ten frames and a couple insulated dividers in at the ends (if the colony is small), should be enough.

Regards, RAB
 

BKF Admin 

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Does everyone agree that a standard national hive should weigh in at around 40LB of stores in November for a normal uk winter ?
 

Monsieur Abeille 

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Does everyone agree that a standard national hive should weigh in at around 40LB of stores in November for a normal uk winter ?
I'd err towards 18.143694800000002Kg (approx)
 
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Tom Bick 

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Yes Admin I would say 40lbs stores in November will be the ideal situation
 

Heather 

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I cannot weigh - but if I can lift/tip it at all (even 2" from the stand) with one hand- not enough feed.
 

Rosti 

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We have not here palm trees like in London.
Finman, I think you'd like Yorkshire then, we've heard of palm trees - but never seen one. You could import one I suppose - but that would cost money so unlikely to happen!
 

YorkshireBees 

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Finman, I think you'd like Yorkshire then, we've heard of palm trees - but never seen one. You could import one I suppose - but that would cost money so unlikely to happen!
I've seen one! Someone sent a postcard to me of them once!!

:rofl:
 
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Tom Bick 

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I understand one washed ashore once at Scarbrough and the locals fled in fear of aliens landing on the beach
 

skydragon 

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Some things are just not meant to be... I paid good money last year for a mature Italian Olive tree.

Poor thing, suddenly got planted in Yorkshire...do you think it is still alive and well...? (No)
 

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