How much honey do you lose with a swarm?

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Coldwater 

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I mean, how much honey do they take with them when they go?
 

429bettsy 

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I think lost a couple of frames when mine left, it was a large swarm. The frames were just about ready to remove and you could see a large area on two frames where the cappings had been removed and empty cells.
 

fiftyjon 

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If a honey bee has a 5mg honey stomach capacity and a swarm of 20,000 bees leave with their stomach's full, that would equate to 100g.

The concern is not what is taken but what will not be foraged for that colony, as most of the flying bees would have gone.
 

Walrus 

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When bees issue a reproductive swarm, they make sure that the parent colony has a good chance of surviving i.e. they have plenty of honey stored & enough bees to help raise the new brood from the new queen.

The loss of honey production is caused by the loss of foragers. The new queen will take a couple of weeks to get mated and then it may take a further 6+ weeks to replenish the bees that left in the swarm. The population drops not just because bees left but because there is a gap in egg laying.

A hive of 50000 bees makes loads more honey than 2 hives of 25000 bees. If a swarm happens just before a flow, or during one, the lost honey can be massive (several full supers).
 

Finman 

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Bee weight is 100-120 mg.

Its full load, like inswarm is 70 mg.

So the honey weight in swarm is about 40%.
2kg swarm has about 0,8 kg honey.

We have balance hive nework in Finland.
When the swarm escapes, that hive will not do any more surplus.
 

Chris Luck 

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Bee weight is 100-120 mg.

Its full load, like inswarm is 70 mg.

So the honey weight in swarm is about 40%.
2kg swarm has about 0,8 kg honey.

We have balance hive nework in Finland.
When the swarm escapes, that hive will not do any more surplus.
Phew, I'm glad I'm not in Finland, still get plenty of surplus here following swarming. Just another example of the differences in Bee keeping in different countries.

Chris
 

nikca 

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Phew, I'm glad I'm not in Finland, still get plenty of surplus here following swarming. Just another example of the differences in Bee keeping in different countries.

Chris
This reminds me of PMQ's - whatever Finman says, Chris says different.

All we need now is a poster to shout "Order, order" and we have a complete set.

Before anyone says it: yes, I'm sat on a back bench, waving my order paper and shouting "Humbug"...
 

sunhivebee 

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A swarm, I believe, contains a cross-section of all ages of bee, not predominantly foragers. The prime swarm certainly takes some honey (sensibly), the casts less so.

A good colony in a good year will still manage to produce a surplus. In England.

The kind of brood interuption that interests me most about swarming is that of varroa.
 

Finman 

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Phew, I'm glad I'm not in Finland, still get plenty of surplus here following swarming. Just another example of the differences in Bee keeping in different countries.

Chris
yes, enjoying your life again. And what Finland has to do with fact how much swarm takes honey with it?

My yield in hives is now about 60-80 kg per hive and how much is yours. After 2 days heat wave is coming and I may tell, how much balance hive generates weight then.

But those hives which swarm, they use yield to make brood again. Basics of beekeeping you should know.

I do not want to loose my bees when I have nursed them the whole year around.

As have said, 15 kg is not surplus to me. It must be 50 kg before I start to speak about yield.

Plenty of surplus? what is that? 5 or 10 kg.


.
 

Finman 

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still get plenty of surplus here following swarming.
Our balance hive network has shown in many years that when a swarm escapes, the surplus incoming stops. - Do you know what is surplus?

Here is my data from this years. The hive had allready 50 kg yield when I put it onto balance.

Do you have something to compare?

This is the first case, when we in balance hive system have measured what AS brings honey when it is done.
This hive brought 6 kg/day.
Just now our temps are 16-18C and thanks to heaven, it has rained couple of days.

AS brought 20 kg in 4 days. Then I joined again brood hive to the foundation hive.
After joining the hive brought same as the foundation hive, about 6-7 kg a day.


http://koti.tnnet.fi/web144/vaakapesa/selaa.php?vuosi=2013&kunta=112

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Finman 

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Typical figure on balance when swarm escapes.

This hive is 130 km from me. Hives had almost same rhytm up to that date. Same vegetation.

When the swarm left the Mikkeli hive, after that my hive has brought 50 kg honey and that Mikkeli-hive has minus result during last 2 weeks.

That is what happens when the colony swarms in main yield.

http://koti.tnnet.fi/web144/vaakapesa/selaa.php?vuosi=2013&kunta=165

.

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Beauhawk 

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Typical figure on balance when swarm escapes.

When the swarm left the Mikkeli hive, after that my hive has brought 50 kg honey and that Mikkeli-hive has minus result during last 2 weeks.


http://koti.tnnet.fi/web144/vaakapesa/selaa.php?vuosi=2013&kunta=165

.

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V interesting Finman. Did you realise you have provided access for all your hive data from Akaa to Virolahti?

Looks and interesting software package, do you use anything else to manage the hives?
 

Finman 

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V interesting Finman. Did you realise you have provided access for all your hive data from Akaa to Virolahti?

Looks and interesting software package, do you use anything else to manage the hives?
What do you mean provided acces? Don't you see them or?


And what do you mean "managing else"


Most of the balance hives give this year poor results. I do not know why.

South-East corner of country is pretty good. All beeks have got good yields here.

.
 

Erichalfbee 

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What Beauhawk means is that having given us a link to some of your data it has given us a way to look at ALL your figures.....I think?
 

Finman 

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What Beauhawk means is that having given us a link to some of your data it has given us a way to look at ALL your figures.....I think?
It is free information, not only via my data.

This is our Finlands Bee Society page and
balance hives = vaakapesät

http://koti.tnnet.fi/web144/vaakapesa/index.php


Free acces...

And those figures have no secret data. Actually the usage of those figures are limited hives cannot be compared to each othres.
Yield frower information is mostly poor or unknown.

When I have put a hive on balance in 4 years, every year it has have swarmed and I have changed the hive then.

.
 

Chris Luck 

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It's a very simple matter nicka, the way bees develop and the production of honey is directly related to where they are located.

That is a fact.

Here in my part of France a good swarm will produce an excess yield in the same year when conditions are right as I'm sure you know.

An existing colony that swarms will most certainly produce a good excess yield providing conditions are right

I was speaking yesterday evening to a keeper in Normandy where their flow is almost finished in any meaningful sense as opposed to here where we have perhaps 6 weeks to go with sunflowers including some late sown

It should be clear to most people that regional conditions and local habitat play a major role in the development of a swarmed colony, urban, rural, long season, short season, hot, moderate or cool, north, south, east, west.

Chris
 

Chris Luck 

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A swarm, I believe, contains a cross-section of all ages of bee, not predominantly foragers. The prime swarm certainly takes some honey (sensibly), the casts less so.

A good colony in a good year will still manage to produce a surplus. In England.

The kind of brood interuption that interests me most about swarming is that of varroa.
As part of my approach to "living with varroa" it's clearly an important factor Heidi and perhaps to anyone else that is interested in keeping bees using low management techniques.

Chris
 

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