How much brood right now........

[Finman]

... as I hope we can agree. ....

Life is easier if beekeepers do not seek for agreement. Everybody just keep their own ideas. That is honest beekeeper's life.

.

 

[alanf]

The point may have been missed that this was research to compare the kill rates when spraying, trickling and vaporising Oxalic.

That needs counting. Before and after.

Sort of, the percentage kill relies on knowing how many mites were present and how many the test treatment killed. Counting before opens all sorts of questions about sample reliability that could be avoided. Most of the previous research I've seen papers for has used a test treatment, counted the drop for the whole hive then treated again with a known effective miticide and counted the mite drop that the test treatment missed, test drop plus final drop gives the total mite count.

Because this is research and you're not keeping the honey you're not worried about residues, long term resistance or even if the miticide is registered for general use, Perizin (coumaphos) was mentioned in some. You can even crank up the final miticide dose to a level over what would be used in a production hive.

We don't actually know what the complete treatment or routine is here. I thought when the clearing brood methodology was first mentioned it was said to be part of the experimental procedure; reduce mite counts to a uniformly low level at a known date. That is, harm to the colony was a secondary consideration. Nothing we have yet provides evidence that it could be a regular treatment to fit with other elements of mite control as part of your IPM. I'll wait to see what's published.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm pretty simple, and I think in terms of analogies when encountering unfamiliar terrain like beekeeping. So here goes how I decided to look at it:

Beek: "Doctor Doctor Doctor: I've been bitten on the behind by a dog that was foaming at the mouth."

Doctor: "Hmm sounds like rabies to me. I need to give you a set of rabies shots. These will make you feel AWFUL for days and, if you have Nosema, will kill you. The bad news is, if the wound is still dirty, the jabs are going to be a complete waste of time. So, lift your skirt/kilt."

Beek: "But it's almost freezing outside!"

I bow to your superior wisdom but IMHO it's sheer stupidity to mess around with the cluster to that extent at this time of the year

 

[Finman]

.
When European Union Varroa Researsh Group gotvthey treratment ready, about 2006, they started to make "Varroa reseach standard". Sturies ´were made so many way that they were often difficult to compare.

And here it is, pdf 54 pages.

http://www.coloss.org/beebook/II/varroa

And where is the freedom of academic reseach!!! Boring...

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I bow to your superior wisdom but IMHO it's sheer stupidity to mess around with the cluster to that extent at this time of the year

I don't have superior wisdom; I am having outrageous beginner's luck. Sunday was a heaven-sent opportunity which resolved this real dilemma for me. As I was thumbing through half the colony was on a cleansing flight and I had to wait a bit for them to come home. No cluster.

 

[fred scuttle]

Went to see my hives yesterday afternoon around 2:45pm and both were very active indeed - almost looked like a mid-summer's day (complete with small amounts of pollen being carried in) so I for one will be waiting until first or second week in January, but no later... Not sure if this will help but it seems wrong to be treating them with OA when they're not clustered and still bringing pollen in... If it doesn't get cold though I'll still treat them as nothing to lose at that point if I do, but loads of varroa next year if I don't....

 

[Swarm]

but loads of varroa next year if I don't....

Why? What autumn treatment did they get? Most of my hives had a zero mite drop last weekend after 7 days, I won't be using oxalic this winter.

 

[REDWOOD]

TryingToLetThemBee is a good avatar so try to learn a bit more patience, you must ask your self what would have happened if you squashed your queen

Rule of thumb
Summer solstice you will find the maximum amount of brood
Winter solstice you will find the minimum amount of brood

some hives will always have brood in the winter and some wont

Beekeeping is not an exact science

 

[peteinwilts]

I don't have superior wisdom; I am having outrageous beginner's luck. Sunday was a heaven-sent opportunity which resolved this real dilemma for me. As I was thumbing through half the colony was on a cleansing flight and I had to wait a bit for them to come home. No cluster.

How long have you had your beekeeping beginners luck? ...and should you have to rely on luck?!?

A single hive statistically gives you a higher possibility of 100% failure and 100% success.
You cannot judge the impact of a late inspection, or an early trickle, as you have no statistics to judge them against.
If they are dead or in a poor state in April, you will not know if this was caused by your actions. If they are strong and healthy, you do not know if this was despite your actions or because of it.

If you have a further drop count, will you be trickling again?

I am far from being the preacher of the BBKA handbook, but still, common sense should prevail. There are a number of beginners on this forum (including myself), and advertising yourself as going against the grain with little evidence of success is a danger to beginners that may not know better.

Winter is a traumatic and dangerous experience for many animals and insects including bees. The best thing we can do is prepare them the best we can, then just leave them alone.
In Winter, I trickle and heft in January, and 'maybe' heft in late February\March depending on the weather.... some may consider this too invasive!

 

[Vramin]

Just realised I'm being dim.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Not my thread. I just made my contribution and explained it.

 

[Mrs Shoot]

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/lasi/sussexplan/varroamites

 

[Hivemaker.]

....The results came to a clear and encouraging conclusion. Application of OA via sublimation, where OA is applied in its pure form by vapourising the crystals with a special heated tool, was superior to application as a solution via either spraying or dribbling.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

"Clear-cut conclusion". Can someone remind me what sublimator we sertled on and where to get it?

 

[itma]

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/lasi/sussexplan/varroamites

I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make.

Most of this old 5-page thread discussed the 'limitations' of this research and the misunderstandings of its conclusions.
What new light is being cast on the subject?

 

[Mrs Shoot]

I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make.

Most of this old 5-page thread discussed the 'limitations' of this research and the misunderstandings of its conclusions.
What new light is being cast on the subject?

I was just highlighting more recent research and the results that have been obtained . Thought it would relate to this thread.

Went to a Varroa & Research Special Interest Day on 8th March 2014 at Stoneleigh Park at the NBC.

Presentations were made by

Professor Ratneiks from LASI about the latest developments on varroa management

Wally Thrale, Bedford Beekeepers – the developments and outcomes of the East Anglian Research Varroa project

NBU – current strategies

Bee Gym Presentation

It was very interesting.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bee Gym Presentation

That sounds interesting - was it formation gymnastics or individual events such as the pommel horse? Did the all wear white tights and matching leotards?

 

[peteinwilts]

That sounds interesting - was it formation gymnastics or individual events such as the pommel horse? Did the all wear white tights and matching leotards?

Mine do not wear white tights, but they all wear matching uniforms.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I'd forgoten about the bee gym. Seems implausible to me but is anyone making it work?

 

[itma]

I was just highlighting more recent research and the results that have been obtained . Thought it would relate to this thread.

That LASI conclusion has been done to death in this thread and several others long since.
Its not new.