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How many people on the forum use National deeps instead of supers?

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Haughton Honey 

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I'm wondering how many people on here use BS National deeps and DN1, DN4 or DN5 frames, instead of supers, meaning uniform boxes throughout the hive?

Is the reason for not doing it purely one of weight, or are there problems finding an extractor that they will fit into?
 

hedgerow pete 

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yes its weight that does it for me, i have worked with langs , this guy had one size only and they were flippin heavy when full, and dont forget they have to be lifted several times
hive to car
car to house
house to kitchen
through the extractor and off to where ever you store them for next year and thats a lot of lifting

i have 12 by 14 broods with sn1 super frames and is more than happy with that set up
 

Finno 

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Having everything one size is very convenient and extraction is quicker when working with larger frames - but a full brood box can weight over 25kg (half cwt). Add to that: very often they have to be carried over rough terrain to nearest vehicular access. My back wasn't able to take it and had to change to shallow supers.
 

Poly Hive 

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Extracting brood frames is slow due to the shape.

The extractor is another issue.

Weight is a further matter.

Would I go that route?

Never.

Have I been there? Sort of but not fully but I know........

PH
 

Hombre 

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Other than weight, there is also the added inconvenience of incompletely filled boxes or more importantly frames. Shallow supers are therefore likely to give less management problems in this regard.

I must admit that a Langstroth brood box with ten frames full of honey is both a crippler and a sight to behold - pass the five dozen jars please! :grouphug:
 

OXFORDBEE 

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I use National Deeps for the first super and then National supers on top (if more are required).
 

Haughton Honey 

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Oxfordbee - have you found much downside to this technique? There seem to be more people against going down this route than there are for it.
 

OXFORDBEE 

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Not really. I've got a big bugger off extractor with a large diameter and automatic speed controller. National deeps are easily extracted using it.

When I had a Thornes 9 frame Universal with tangental screens it was a slow tedious process getting honey out of national deeps. If I still had my Universal I'd agree with Poly Hive and stick to shallow supers.

One year I did two short tons from 27 hives. It took ages to extract the honey ... especially in national deeps .. only three frames at a time .. That's when I decided to get a bigger extractor.

I only use one national deep box per hive as the first super. This means I'm only lifting a heavy box a short distance. I do use commercial supers though and a full one of them is also quite heavy. I've also used a commercial deep as a super but that's not for the faint hearted.
 
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Haughton Honey 

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Oxfordbee - thanks for that - I'm hoping to use DN4 frames for honey. Do you mind me asking what larger extractor you went out and bought specifically for the purpose?

Thanks



Not really. I've got a big bugger off extractor with a large diameter and automatic speed controller. National deeps are easily extracted using it.

When I had a Thornes 9 frame Universal with tangental screens it was a slow tedious process getting honey out of national deeps. If I still had my Universal I'd agree with Poly Hive and stick to shallow supers.

One year I did two short tons from 27 hives. It took ages to extract the honey ... especially in national deeps .. only three at a time .. That's when I decided to get a bigger extractor.

I only use one national deep box per hive as the first super. This means I'm only lifting a heavy box a short distance. I do use commercial supers though and a full one of them is also quite heavy. I've also used a commercial deep as a super but that's not for the faint hearted.
 

OXFORDBEE 

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Got Thomas Euromel 24 Frame Extractor. To your door these are now about £3,000 + vat + carriage so I think just under £3,700 at todays prices.

I also got 24 frame carousel so that frames can be uncapped whilst spinning out honey. this carousel takes deep frames too. Dunno how much this is but must be heading on to £800.
 

Poly Hive 

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white park?
For two hives this sort of thinking is just not practical.

Yes some do it but kitting up for the proper extraction is hugely expensive and the down side far far outweighs the up.

There are very good reasons for using supers. They are just more sensible.

PH
 

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I use 6 frame electrict extractor. It works as fast as I can uncap frames with electrict knife.
I extract 200 kg honey in 4 hours.

About how many hives we are talking about?

I preheat honey combs to 37C, and it is important how whole process works: uncapping, extracting, sieving..


Various frames are not a problem. I may put langstroth and mediem frames in spinning balance with 4+2 and 3+3 systems.

.
 
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OXFORDBEE 

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I completely agree with PolyHive ... for a small number of hives you are better off sticking with shallow supers. National deeps can be extracted tangentally but it is so very much slower than shallows ... expecially with 9 frame extractors which have a small barrel.

However, if you plan to increase the number of colonies to a large number then planning ahead can be a good idea. My extractor was a huge investment ... but then I had more than 30 hives when I bought it ...

Just a thought if you really want to use deep frames: How about a SWEINTY extractor as below...

Product: WORLD EXTRACTOR
Item: 108600

Fast! 3 frames in only 2-5 minutes
Easy! Both sides extracted at the same time
Flexible! Virtually any size of frame can be extracted (even TBH)
Low cost! One of the lowest priced radial extractors
Clean! All stainless steel construction
Award winning! Gold Medal at Apimondia 2005
Simply place the frames, or combs, horizontally in the extractor,
turn the handle and the honey is forced out of the comb.
The extractor can extract 3 frames in about 2-5 minutes.
The machine is easily stored (vertically) without taking up much space.
Its lightness ensures effortless handling
 
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Finman 

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do not know, if we in Finland sell at all other extractors than Langstroth.
No sense to by only for small frames and you cannot extract brood frames.

Goes too complex again to dop so.

The cheapest extractor in Finland is 420 euros. It is for 4 frames.
Used you may get half price.

In England the price seems to be same http://www.honeyshop.co.uk/equipment.html
 
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Weight

I have, by accident 1 brood box full of honey on a WBC. I am a big lad and normally would not worry about lifting this sort of weight. It becomes an issue even for me to lug this on and off each week and I will have to use a barrow to move it for extraction. I know that people often say that it is best to have all the same size but consider the lifting. One nasty twist at an out apiary, the back gives way, and you are in trouble!!
 

hedgerow pete 

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i am six two and built like a brick out house , and i have had to carry deep langs to and fro when dealing with a commercial operation and it crippled me, if i was to go down the professional route , ie over 40 i would still use smaller frames because not only would i have to buy big exspensive extrators £3800 in total i hear mentioned i would also have to buy evan more equipment so i did not lift them by hand but by machine say another couple of thousand again so thats lots of money spent and for no return, sorry but that dont economical sence to me, we were always told that two small extractors going were easier to to finance than one big one
 

Poly Hive 

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I am a decent size and at this time was working doing manual labour (roughnecking) offshore, I was fit and pretty strong.

I had a leak from this hive on the heather, from the floor, and had to make two trips to get it. When I had the new floor on it, and they were shut in I plain couldn't get it off the floor. I was dammed if I was leaving it behind and with rage stocking the boiler I got it up and tottered over the moor to the van.

Size? Poly Langstroth. It was stuffed to the gunnels with heather honey.

Size is not everything. Work clever not strong.

PH
 

oakwell_1 

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1st supa national deep then normal supas
 

drstitson 

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i allowed myself the option of extracting LS brood frames (as well as the occasional dadant/LS jumbo) when ordering my extractor from Giordan (which arrives in a day or two).

all in price - 12 frame LS drill driven extractor, jumbo screens, IVA, delivery and bank transfer fee - just under 500 euro (£440). Suitable drill picked up on fleabay for £30.
 

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