How long does it take bees to make a queen cell

[Beersinthegarden]

Morning, Say if you removed your queen from the hive how long would it take the bees to make a queen cell and how long should you wait before checking for queen cells?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Morning, Say if you removed your queen from the hive how long would it take the bees to make a queen cell and how long should you wait before checking for queen cells?

they will start to panic within minutes so will be making emergency QCs pretty sharpish, if you're looking at forcing them to make a new queen this way, there are a few things you need to consider, so really we need more info.
Are you just removing a queen from a full hive and introducing her to the gatepost? are you thinking of making a walkaway split? removing the queen in a nuc? or Something else?
Broadly speaking, check after day three/four and tear down any capped QC's then day six, and if you still have open QC's keep them.

 

[Beersinthegarden]

they will start to panic within minutes so will be making emergency QCs pretty sharpish, if you're looking at forcing them to make a new queen this way, there are a few things you need to consider, so really we need more info.
Are you just removing a queen from a full hive and introducing her to the gatepost? are you thinking of making a walkaway split? removing the queen in a nuc? or Something else?
Broadly speaking, check after day three/four and tear down any capped QC's then day six, and if you still have open QC's keep them.

Brilliant thanks for the info.

I have a honey bound hive packed with bees though on inspection yesterday it's possibly as much as 90% honey or more and no space. I was looking to free up some room for them while at the same time making a spare nuc, they have started storing honey all across the top of frames and I wasn't looking to get honey off this hive this year. Another concern is with this much honey and hardly any brood would a split be less likely to work?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Brilliant thanks for the info.

I have a honey bound hive packed with bees though on inspection yesterday it's possibly as much as 90% honey or more and no space. I was looking to free up some room for them while at the same time making a spare nuc, they have started storing honey all across the top of frames and I wasn't looking to get honey off this hive this year. Another concern is with this much honey and hardly any brood would a split be less likely to work?

You're better off getting a super on sharpish, bruise any stores in the brood and leaving them move it up.
The main objective of beekeeping is taking off honey - you seem to have achieved that
Personally I would forget the walkaway split, it's getting on and you are much better off concentrating on building up this colony than struggling (if the new queen gets mated) to nurse two mediocre colonies through the winter.

 

[oliver90owner]

They would start making preparations for emergency queen cells (probably?) within the hour? (don’t really know the actual timescale, but not that important) - if there were young larvae/eggs present, of course. Waiting a couple of days would be sensible and once after that, to thin out the cells, particularly removing those cells built on older larvae. Best to retain a couple of cell definitely started with eggs.

It’s not the best way - to carry out your beekeeping - btw.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It’s not the best way - to carry out your beekeeping - btw.

I agree. It needs to be done in a measured way - strong colonies, strong nucs and good mating weather as well as time for the new queen to build up the brood.
I've noticed on certain social media sites that it is very fashionable over the pond, and they make up pretty poor weak two frame nucs. Usually ends up in a mess.
Explains a lot.

 

[drex]

"I wasn't looking to get honey off this hive this year"
The bees will do what the bees will do. I can only guide them my way, but they may not comply, as in your case.
I have little honey in my hives this summer, but am happy as the colonies are good and strong. I have no control over the weather

 

[thedozzer]

One other thing to think about making a nuc up now, apart from getting the queen matted, will be wasps.
As they move from prey feeding to sweet feeding soon, they will make a complete pain of themselves, and any weak/small colony will struggle, so make sure that any nuc can defend it self, be it tunnel/underfloor entrances or what ever you can to help them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As they move from prey feeding to sweet feeding soon,

They already have around here

 

[Erichalfbee]

One other thing to think about making a nuc up now, apart from getting the queen matted, will be wasps.
As they move from prey feeding to sweet feeding soon, they will make a complete pain of themselves, and any weak/small colony will struggle, so make sure that any nuc can defend it self, be it tunnel/underfloor entrances or what ever you can to help them.

Agree
Even a nuc can defend itself if it is rammed with bees but entrance defences are really worth it. All my nucs are on home made underfloor entrances. @Swarm has pictures here of a wonderful floor he made for one of his nucs. You can even close these down further with an entrance block to almost fill the porch. Great invention

 

[Heather]

Be aware that the drone population is dropping off. I have a few hives with no drones already this year. You may successfully produce a new queen , but she may not get successfully mated.

 

[Beersinthegarden]

Thanks for the replies, I will get a super for this hive and avoid doing a split then. I have gone very quickly from 1 hive into 4 and it's becoming a very expensive hobby with all the equipment needed. I should have made splits earlier by the sounds of it but had no idea they would run out of room.

 

[oliver90owner]

Nuc sized colonies can easily be taken through the winter with appropriate management. The old saying that a swam in July is not worth a fly originates from not getting any return that year and possibly losing them over winter after giving them extra feed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Nuc sized colonies can easily be taken through the winter with appropriate management.

I always take a few through the winter and probably get less issues than with full size hives. They need no more feeding than full hives, in fact I usually end up taking a frame of unused stores out of each one come spring.

 

[Beersinthegarden]

Nuc sized colonies can easily be taken through the winter with appropriate management. The old saying that a swam in July is not worth a fly originates from not getting any return that year and possibly losing them over winter after giving them extra feed.

So I could risk a late split now? I presume it would be better getting a mated queen in although I have never done this method. I could give the nuc plenty of resources reduce the entrance etc. Do people on the forum have mated queens available for purchase ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So I could risk a late split now?

With the resources you describe you had at the beginning of this thread I wouldn't call it a wise move, you would split an already weak (I don't figure a brood box packed full of stores not brood at this time of year a strength) hive into two even weaker ones then expect both to build up in double quick time, one which may also have the challenge of raising a new queen.
I think what we are finding more and more is the self professed 'experts' banging on and on at beginners that they have to split their hives before winter (as having two p!ss poor weak colonies is much better than one strong one to go through winter)
It would certainly be a 'risk' and as we were taught at 'risk assessor school' the risk equation (probability of an incident x the likely consequence) I wouldn't be giving it a good score.

 

[Erichalfbee]

So I could risk a late split now? Do people on the forum have mated queens available for purchase ?

No and Yes

 

[ShinySideUp]

I think what we are finding more and more is the self professed 'experts' banging on and on at beginners that they have to split their hives before winter (as having two p!ss poor weak colonies is much better than one strong one to go through winter)

Why would anyone do that? Is there something I've missed?

 

[Dogged]

Why would anyone do that? Is there something I've missed?

perhaps they have shares in sugar?