How do people afford multiple hives?

[Finman]

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You go too far with your tests. Beekeeping cannot be that difficult.

A beginner cannot even start, when he reads these advices.

If someone is so perfect person what you guys say, it is better not even piss to beekeeping direction. It is better to try to the job of prime minister.
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What I test is queen sellers. I compare what kind of queens they sell. I can tell with 50 years experience that they are many. That makes this interesting.
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To me beekeeping is not a prison. It is hobby of freedom. No university or society tell to me what I must do. I do or do not.

 

[Beefriendly]

I wont do stupid tests that serve no useful purpose though.

It's not stupid B+, it's sometimes the only way you can move a double brood hive with supers on by splitting it into two halves. It's simple too heavy to lift safely.
And at first light on a morning when you split a hive in half...... even the calmest fo bees are grumpy I can tell you....speed is of the essence...Of course if you wish to think your bees are angels and would behave differently at this treatment then I can only think you are kidding yourself. Of course I might be wrong, which is why I suggested you test them yourself.

 

[B+.]

It's not stupid B+, it's sometimes the only way you can move a double brood hive with supers on by splitting it into two halves. It's simple too heavy to lift safely.
And at first light on a morning when you split a hive in half...... even the calmest fo bees are grumpy I can tell you....speed is of the essence...Of course if you wish to think your bees are angels and would behave differently at this treatment then I can only think you are kidding yourself. Of course I might be wrong, which is why I suggested you test them yourself.

That's not what I meant.
I meant it would be stupid to pull the best colony you had ever seen apart to satisfy a whim.
If you saw how stable these bees are on the comb, you wouldn't be inclined to risk them for anything.
As it is, I've been asked to repeat the VSH test and overwinter them without treatment (which I do anyway) to prove their worth as potential breeding stock.
I don't expect you to believe what I say without seeing them for yourself. Just accept that others on the forum have seen them and would confirm what I have said.

 

[SDM]

I've been shown some beekeepers "gentle" local bees that I would have classified as plain nasty.

Inspecting bees at a local association, I'd been stung 3 times before touching the hive. 10 times maybe before I'd got through the half of its brood and a half. They suggested closing it up and I offered to carry on and cull the queen. Only to be told they make splits for beginners from it. Followed up with a comment along the lines of " real bees should sting".
Well they must have been real bees, because we couldn't take our suits off 100m away at the carpark.

 

[B+.]

Inspecting bees at a local association, I'd been stung 3 times before touching the hive. 10 times maybe before I'd got through the half of its brood and a half. They suggested closing it up and I offered to carry on and cull the queen. Only to be told they make splits for beginners from it. Followed up with a comment along the lines of " real bees should sting".
Well they must have been real bees, because we couldn't take our suits off 100m away at the carpark.

We have some shocking bees in this country. Yet, they don't even wear bee suits in other countries (e.g. http://www.toleranzzucht.de/home/newsdetails/theorie-und-praxistag-der-hessen-zuechter-und-der-agt/). I think we could learn a lot from the way things are done there.

 

[Beefriendly]

That's not what I meant..

It's not what I mean either. I have some very gentle bees, no smoke or veil needed. And I'm sure yours are the same....BUT

Calm bees stay calm.

My point is that under certain circumstances even the calmest bees will turn defensive. A point you appear to either ignore or refute or test.

 

[B+.]

My point is that under certain circumstances even the calmest bees will turn defensive. A point you appear to either ignore or refute or test.

OK. Now I see what you're getting at.
Well, I suppose, I could go out of my way to make them sting, but, that's not what the tests are designed to show. During normal beekeeping operation, they sit still on the comb and do not fly up or sting. That is, without smoke and in any weather conditions (in fact, they were completely calm during a thunderstorm when I did the Bee Breeders assessment on 22nd July - I had to go back and collect drones for marking and clipping while the examiners sheltered from the pouring rain in the car).

 

[Beefriendly]

Yes, I'm not doubting the calmness of your bees during inspections etc, just doubting their ability to remain clam under ALL circumstances.
Mine do not appreciate being broken into two halfves at the crack of dawn...

 

[B+.]

Yes, I'm not doubting the calmness of your bees during inspections etc, just doubting their ability to remain clam under ALL circumstances.
Mine do not appreciate being broken into two halfves at the crack of dawn...

If I took a box of bees and shook it violently, I'd expect to be stung.
It is not a sensible test though. It proves nothing except that I could force them to sting.
If it makes you feel better, I confess that I haven't got up at the crack of dawn and split the colony in two. Nor have I any intention of doing it.

 

[SDM]

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You go too far with your tests. Beekeeping cannot be that difficult.
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What I test is queen sellers. I compare what kind of queens they sell.
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To me beekeeping is not a prison. It is hobby of freedom.

Beekeeping isn't, bee improvement with the criteria B+ has is, or you end up with the opinions like Fusion Power who like many in the US took the short cut to varroa tolerance of Africanised bees, but ended up with unproductive, aggressive bees.
You'd think that since your freedom comes from those queen sellers that have done the testing for you, that you would have more appreciation.

I find it an odd attitude for a "scientist" to question the value of testing.

 

[B+.]

bee improvement with the criteria B+ has is

I just want to make it clear that these aren't my criteria. I am standing on the shoulders of giants like many others.

 

[madasafish]

We have some shocking bees in this country. Yet, they don't even wear bee suits in other countries (e.g. http://www.toleranzzucht.de/home/newsdetails/theorie-und-praxistag-der-hessen-zuechter-und-der-agt/). I think we could learn a lot from the way things are done there.

My view of beekeeping - when I started in 2010 - was that the hobby side was based firmly in the 1950s. That view was and is incorrect. It's nearer to the Middle Ages... Ignorance and an unwillingness to adopt proven systems of improvement and teaching by rote ideas with zero scientific proof --- the classic rejection of any scientific methods by many...

(I do not say ALL beekeepers are like that but any organisation which prints articles about matchsticks (example of many) in its official magazine has a lot to answer for.)

 

[Finman]

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I find it an odd attitude for a "scientist" to question the value of testing.

I measure my skills with yield kilos. That is my challenge in beekeeping.

To live according some orders, that is not my life. I did not started my hobby that I would live like a slave.

I know the ability of bees, what they can do. I cannot demand more than they can. I have enough experience about that.

I have scientist education, but very few become scientist, who come from university. Perhaps 5%.

.people speak lots about science, but they fo not mind open even the research link, what I offer with their mother language. Rhubard leave things are more interesting.

 

[Finman]

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How to get calm bees. Buy a such mated Queen.

In that point many say that this is only what I know about beekeeping. That only tells how smart is this gang.
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To buy a good Queen is some kind of crime.... Haha. Your hives. Not mine.

 

[B+.]

I cannot demand more than they can.

I do.
At the risk or re-opening the "continuous improvement" debate again, that is what a breeding programme is all about.

 

[Finman]

I do.
At the risk or re-opening the "continuous improvement" debate again, that is what a breeding programme is all about.

I buy your queens when they are ready. I trust on your skills.

 

[Fusion_power]

(I do not say ALL beekeepers are like that but any organisation which prints articles about matchsticks (example of many) in its official magazine has a lot to answer for.)

This applies double to the equipment we use in beekeeping. How many major innovations have been made in beekeeping in the last 50 years?

I buy your queens when they are ready. I trust on your skills.

I think B+ tried hard to say that it is not just his skills, it is the skills of a group operating toward a common goal.

I'd sell you some of my mite resistant queens, but you would probably think you had to work them in a t-shirt and veil.

 

[B+.]

I think B+ tried hard to say that it is not just his skills, it is the skills of a group operating toward a common goal.

Indeed.
I also meant those researchers whose work contributes to our understanding. Without that, we wouldn't be able to do the practical work.

 

[Brian Bush]

That's not what I meant.
I meant it would be stupid to pull the best colony you had ever seen apart to satisfy a whim.
If you saw how stable these bees are on the comb, you wouldn't be inclined to risk them for anything.
As it is, I've been asked to repeat the VSH test and overwinter them without treatment (which I do anyway) to prove their worth as potential breeding stock.
I don't expect you to believe what I say without seeing them for yourself. Just accept that others on the forum have seen them and would confirm what I have said.

I have seen B+ bees. They are very prolific and are the calmest bees I have ever seen. I am absolutely amazed at the size of the colonies and their honey production. The most striking thing is their behavior. They allowed us to remove heavy honey supers and a QE without paying any attention. Smoke was not used or needed. We searched through the brood frames of a double brood Langstroth and found the queen quietly going about her business. B+ and his continental colleagues are working to attain the perfection we can only dream about. These were the calmest bees I have ever seen. I put on a suit as a matter of safety but genuinely I would not have needed it. Large brood nest, plenty of honey, calm and non-aggressive and a tolerance of varroa that means no treatments, is this not what we all want??

 

[Beefriendly]

Worth adding that B+'s bees are not the only type or strain that require no protective gear to work with.
Many of these queens are commercially available from good breeders.
Unless B+ has set up a recent sideline, his aren't.
Which is a real shame; as I'd like to work with some decent Carniolans rather just hear how wonderful they are.