How do people afford multiple hives?

[Finman]

Does your son realise how much of his time 20 hives will take? Why do you think most hive owners are retired or its their full time job.Why not start small and see how it goes?

20 hives needs quite a big building for storing and honey handling. Try first with 100 m2 dry storehouse.

 

[wightbees]

With QE you can cut them into 4 and fit into cheaply made board of your hive choice. CB I have great success using builders poly sheeting, cut to fit. As already said, use the sales wisely. For me time is just as important as saving money! DIY for me is a must, this venture wouldn't work paying high prices for boxes I can make at a fraction of the price! Frames are easy to make but I have not had time this year, hopefully this winter I might be able to knock out a load but first I have 150 boxes to make lol

 

[thorn]

Does your son realise how much of his time 20 hives will take? Why do you think most hive owners are retired or its their full time job.Why not start small and see how it goes?

In theory a beekeeper will spend 20 minutes with each hive per week during the season. In theory. So, 20 hives x 20 minutes = 6 hour 40 minutes. Add frame making, cleaning up, travel time, trouble shooting, and it's more than a full day every week through spring, summer and into the autumn.
Has he got a family to consider? He may be enjoying himself as a two hive beekeeper, but does he have the time to devote to twenty hives? As others have said, build up gradually.
And he must be prepared to spend more than he makes selling his honey.

 

[Anduril]

In theory a beekeeper will spend 20 minutes with each hive per week during the season. In theory. So, 20 hives x 20 minutes = 6 hour 40 minutes. Add frame making, cleaning up, travel time, trouble shooting, and it's more than a full day every week through spring, summer and into the autumn.
Has he got a family to consider? He may be enjoying himself as a two hive beekeeper, but does he have the time to devote to twenty hives? As others have said, build up gradually.
And he must be prepared to spend more than he makes selling his honey.

I've got 25 hives I take no more than 4 hours including travel to 3 apiaries in total, so call it 3 hours looking through 25 hives. Just over 7 minutes per hive. More complex manipulations will take longer.

 

[mazzamazda]

In theory a beekeeper will spend 20 minutes with each hive per week during the season. In theory. So, 20 hives x 20 minutes = 6 hour 40 minutes. Add frame making, cleaning up, travel time, trouble shooting, and it's more than a full day every week through spring, summer and into the autumn.
Has he got a family to consider? He may be enjoying himself as a two hive beekeeper, but does he have the time to devote to twenty hives? As others have said, build up gradually.
And he must be prepared to spend more than he makes selling his honey.

I'm very unfortunate if I have to spend more than 1 minute per hive during the season, if queenless yes, frame making yes, travelling for 90 mins to have a look at 100 hives is a pain but he really needs to work faster the more hives he has. A plan, I start by thinking what I need to look for, usually decent laying queen, hardly ever need to find her, disease, space and thats it.

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

A full two days a week I spend on bees this includes jarring/delivery's and making up equipment and often runs to three days for last minute orders, I also count helping my old mentor out with his thirty colony's in this time. Up to now I have only spent what income sales have brought in which does slow things a bit but no worry's about debt to be paid back.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

With 20 hives, he'll likely be involved with HMRC for income tax and possibly VAT if he registers. That will involve increased record-making and book-keeping. He might have to pay his father for help with that!

CVB

 

[For want of a better word]

With 20 hives, he'll likely be involved with HMRC for income tax and possibly VAT if he registers. That will involve increased record-making and book-keeping. He might have to pay his father for help with that!

CVB

Useful if SWMBO can handle the accounts..... get Quickbooks!

Needs to be said that 70 + strong colonies are needed if you are even considering making a bit more than pin money!

Yeghes da

 

[Angularity]

Lots of really good information here, thanks.

For background, he's 15 and interested in having the bees as an alternative to a Saturday/summer job, over the next 4-5 years. I think he needs to experience the 'joys' of working for someone else before he sets up his own business, but as both of his parents are self-employed, I suppose he's only following our example. It could be a very useful exercise for him. If he does the sums he might get away with fewer than 20 hives, but that seemed like a reasonable place to start.

In this situation the annual profit target has to be the equivalent of 8 hours a week at minimum wage, which is about £2,000. What he hasn't twigged is that if he does this, we'll still send him out to work in the winter, unless he can justify it by spending his Saturdays assembling frames and so on.

 

[Jambo]

I think he needs to experience the 'joys' of working for someone else before he sets up his own business

The joys indeed! He could do that to raise the capital to buy the equipment in the first place, and then move to his own business as soon as it is viable?

 

[Jimmy]

Lots of really good information here, thanks.

For background, he's 15 and interested in having the bees as an alternative to a Saturday/summer job, over the next 4-5 years. I think he needs to experience the 'joys' of working for someone else before he sets up his own business, but as both of his parents are self-employed, I suppose he's only following our example. It could be a very useful exercise for him. If he does the sums he might get away with fewer than 20 hives, but that seemed like a reasonable place to start.

In this situation the annual profit target has to be the equivalent of 8 hours a week at minimum wage, which is about £2,000. What he hasn't twigged is that if he does this, we'll still send him out to work in the winter, unless he can justify it by spending his Saturdays assembling frames and so on.

Admirable aims and good luck to him.

If he is sitting academic exams over the next few years you might need to balance the pressures of exams (generally May-June for both GCSEs and A levels, plus revision leading up to that of course) and the busiest time of year for beekeeping (April - June). There's location/transport to factor in, not just of apiaries but also selling the honey.

 

[Herbalist]

Your key question is "how do the commercial beekeepers do it?". If you look at the educational courses and qualifications (I think it was on the bee-farmers site but I am not sure) you will see that woodwork is part of the course. If you want to do it commercially and build a LOT of hives then there is inevitably going to be an up-front investment in woodworking kit and material to work on. If you are a beginner at woodwork you will need to plan to waste a fair amount unless you are lucky enough to have a woodworking tutor. I got some good kit off EBay (and some crap). I would suggest that you are going to need the following:
Bench saw, Cross-cut chop saw, Band Saw, Drill, Electric plane, Belt sander, Orbital sander, Router and Router table with appropriate bits. In addition you will need minor bits and pieces (digital vernier and depth guage, digital protractor plus some hand tools). You will need some dust extraction. You will not believe how much mess you can make building a bee-hive! Don't forget consumables - nails, screws, abrasives, yacht varnish/paint, wood-filler, danish oil etc.
It is quite a list but when you are kitted up and you have got the design and skill - you can knock them out on a semi-mass production basis. The cost per hive drops like a brick. I ruthlessly threw out all the old rubbish that had gathered in my garage for years and converted it into a workshop.

 

[Beefriendly]

Needs to be said that 70 + strong colonies are needed if you are even considering making a bit more than pin money!

An interesting question in that some suggest that more hives = more honey, which is obvious....means more work. Other suggest that quality queens and less hives mean same amount of honey less work...although same amount of time for extraction of honey.
Beekeepers choice.

 

[Beefriendly]

I ruthlessly threw out all the old rubbish that had gathered in my garage for years and converted it into a workshop.

Amazing, you made a workshop from all the old rubbish in your garage. I'm impressed!

 

[Amari]

Your key question is "how do the commercial beekeepers do it?". If you look at the educational courses and qualifications (I think it was on the bee-farmers site but I am not sure) you will see that woodwork is part of the course. If you want to do it commercially and build a LOT of hives then there is inevitably going to be an up-front investment in woodworking kit and material to work on. If you are a beginner at woodwork you will need to plan to waste a fair amount unless you are lucky enough to have a woodworking tutor. I got some good kit off EBay (and some crap). I would suggest that you are going to need the following:
Bench saw, Cross-cut chop saw, Band Saw, Drill, Electric plane, Belt sander, Orbital sander, Router and Router table with appropriate bits. In addition you will need minor bits and pieces (digital vernier and depth guage, digital protractor plus some hand tools). You will need some dust extraction. You will not believe how much mess you can make building a bee-hive! Don't forget consumables - nails, screws, abrasives, yacht varnish/paint, wood-filler, danish oil etc.
It is quite a list but when you are kitted up and you have got the design and skill - you can knock them out on a semi-mass production basis. The cost per hive drops like a brick. I ruthlessly threw out all the old rubbish that had gathered in my garage for years and converted it into a workshop.

Langstroth hives are much simpler to build than Nationals. I built a couple as part of my beginners' course 45 years ago - and needed far less kit than listed above.

 

[madasafish]

Langstroth hives are much simpler to build than Nationals. I built a couple as part of my beginners' course 45 years ago - and needed far less kit than listed above.

Which is why I chose Langs in 2010....

 

[protheroe]

Tablesaw that will take a stacked dado and a planer thicknesser is all that's really needed to build hives but watch your fingers with a stacked dado blade.without a dado blade you would need a router and table.adds to the cost but much safer.make a jig for finger joints for roofs.hives can be made from cedar for a fraction of the cost but I suppose you would have to make a lot to cover the cost of the tools.ive probably knocked up a hundred hives now and spent a lot but saved a small fortune from not buying new.otherwise buy in the sales

 

[For want of a better word]

An interesting question in that some suggest that more hives = more honey, which is obvious....means more work. Other suggest that quality queens and less hives mean same amount of honey less work...although same amount of time for extraction of honey.
Beekeepers choice.

More hives with locally adapted productive honey mountain bees, would be better than lots of hives with Mediterranean bees huddling together on huge frames just to keep warm and not producing any honey!
One has to be aware of your LOCAL environment.....importing BuckCarnihybri bees into an area that has a distinctive localised temperate northern maritime climate, with specific and seasonably variable forage opportunities would be disastrous... as many have found in Cornwall !

Look and see what other beefarmers are doing in your area....

AND lots of luck ( Keep your wife in work)

Yeghes da
I find the Langstroths and the 14 x 12 National hive sizes far to big for the bees I keep.. the OSB are just about right.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

His ambition is great, however I would suggest build up steadily and gain experience, some bargains will come along and profits can be ploughed back. However as has been said, with 20 hives, that's a lot of storage and extraction room too. Is that available?

He might get more interested in *** and football and getting drunk in a couple of years (seems like a good idea) and then clear off to uni and leave you with it all to deal with!

 

[Eyeman]

Useful if SWMBO can handle the accounts..... get Quickbooks!

Needs to be said that 70 + strong colonies are needed if you are even considering making a bit more than pin money!

Yeghes da

20 production colonies can get 2000lb honey that's £8K profit & if he keeps the same number of support double 6 frame nucs that's another £4K from selling the Q+ half of each nuc in spring:
So is £12,000 a year pin money?