how accurate does the bee space have to be ?

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Gadget Grandad 

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Hi, I have just built my first flat pack brood box, including plastic runners, the frames are sitting 2mm below the top of the box, is this within tolerance or do I have to make them flush?

Regards Alan
 
T

Tom Bick 

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Probably better if they are slightly below and perhaps 2mm is ok have you checked the gap below the frames
 

itma 

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Its not good, but it isn't a total disaster.

Some advocate about 1mm of deliberate headspace to take account of prop buildup between framelugs and runners.


Where you might run into trouble is with a flat sheet queen excluder laid over those frames - the bees will go to town with prop!
Excessive propolis on the topbars will make inspection more awkward and particularly complicate the replacement of the QX.

Solution would be to use a (massively better anyway) framed, rigid-wire QX.
The 2mm will be within tolerance for the beespace that the frame provides, whereas 2mm instead of 0 with a flat sheet (metal or plastic) is going to be noticed by the bees and stuffed with prop.
 
T

Tom Bick 

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Yes that's good and allows for a bit of shrinkage if any takes place. If all your boxes were identical with your 8 mm at the bottom and the 2mm the top a combined 10mm then it's edging towards the large size but not a great deal in it
 

Nige.Coll 

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you should get away with that on a brood box. most omf's have a 20+mm frame between the brood box and the mesh.

try to get it closer on supers if you can though.
 

Hengest 

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Daft question time .... So which way up does a wired queen excluder(qx) go? I have been assuming wires at the bottom to emulate flat plastic qx that I have seen but Itma's reply above seems to suggest the other way up ie wires at the top.
 
T

Tom Bick 

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If your hive is bottom bee space then you place your framed queen excluder on your hive with the gap at the bottom and the other way round if top bee space
 
T

Tom Bick 

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I don't have any of the plastic frame runners to hand but from past measurements seem to remember a slight difference between the plastic and far superior metal frame runners in that the plastic were smaller not a great deal perhaps 1mm. If you can get some metal frame runners in the long run far better to fit them.
 

Gadget Grandad 

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Hi Tom I am going to the trade show on Saturday at Stoneliegh so will pick some up and see . thanks again for the help.

Regards Alan
 

itma 

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... So which way up does a wired queen excluder(qx) go? I have been assuming wires at the bottom to emulate flat plastic qx that I have seen ...
Its a better solution - not emulating something cheap and nasty!

As Tom said, for a bottom beespace hive (so standard National, 14x12, etc), the frame adds a beespace between the topbars and the QX. This means you get massively less wax and prop on the QX, and it is no problem removing it and later replacing it.
Only for a top beespace hive (like a Langstroth), does the frame goe above the QX wires. This then makes a beespace between the bottom of the super's frames and the QX. Again the result is happiness.


Two really great upgrades for a basic hive are a framed wire QX (as discussed) and a no-hole (framed) polycarbonate coverboard. Even if your polyhive came with a floppy bit of clear plastic to rest on the frame topbars, you can do much better with something that has a beespace frame and does not sag in the middle!
 

Hengest 

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Thanks Itma and Tom for your, as always, helpful answers.

I have a th*rnes sale standard national (empty )stood out in the garden airing after applying some clear cuprinol so bottom beespace it is and qx with the frame below. I'll turn it over next time I'm passing!

Just finished making a nucleus hive which should pass muster and the next project is a polycarb crown board combined with a 50mm eke for insulation/feeding as discussed several times on this site! Seems an elegant solution.
 

MuswellMetro 

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Daft question time .... So which way up does a wired queen excluder(qx) go? I have been assuming wires at the bottom to emulate flat plastic qx that I have seen but Itma's reply above seems to suggest the other way up ie wires at the top.
NOT a daft question, A very good Question ,it is hardly ever explained in books
 
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