Housel Positioning of frames

[Antipodes]

It has been briefly discussed here before, but not for a while from what I can see. Has anyone on the forum given this a good try?
Any comments or conclusions welcome!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sounds like a fantasy concept to me - imprinted wax foundation doesn't have an 'up' side or a left and right side - whichever way you stick it in, bees will build the comb exactly the same, I think Housel needs to be careful where he gets his smoking material from

 

[Michael Palmer]

What is that you say? Poppycock?
I know a bit about this. I've listened to Dee Lusby talk about the "Housel" position. It comes from a Florida beekeeper named Michael House...who "discovered" it. He claims that when a swarm enters a cavity, the first comb they build is different than the combs to either side. He continues, the combs are constructed with the "Ys" facing down on the comb side facing the central comb. Dee added that if you don't house the combs, the small cell bit doesn't work. Really?? At a meeting where I spoke, Dee explained the issue. She cut up 3"x3" squares of foundation and passed them around to the audience. People looked through the foundation and were asked to see how the "Ys" are facing down. Yes, they saw the Ys. She asked them to turn the foundation 180 degrees and note how the Ys are now facing up. All the bobble heads are bobbling up and down. OMG Madge. The Ys! Then she explains the real issue. It seems that when the Ys are facing down, while facing the center comb, the Y part forms a shelf on which the queen lays an egg. This egg, because it is on the Y shelf, is as should be. BUT, if the Y is facing up, and the queen lays an egg on that supposed shelf, the egg is facing down. Because it is down-facing, the bees will supersede using that down-facing larvae. Really??
I asked her if she believed that theory, does it mean that the bees only supersede on one side of the comb. Really?? So, if the Ys are facing down on the center facing comb, aren't the Ys always facing up on the opposite side of the comb? Every time? Yes that are. and do the bees therefore, supersede??
Again...Poppycock.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What is that you say? Poppycock?
I know a bit about this. I've listened to Dee Lusby talk about the "Housel" position. It comes from a Florida beekeeper named Michael House...who "discovered" it. He claims that when a swarm enters a cavity, the first comb they build is different than the combs to either side. He continues, the combs are constructed with the "Ys" facing down on the comb side facing the central comb. Dee added that if you don't house the combs, the small cell bit doesn't work. Really?? At a meeting where I spoke, Dee explained the issue. She cut up 3"x3" squares of foundation and passed them around to the audience. People looked through the foundation and were asked to see how the "Ys" are facing down. Yes, they saw the Ys. She asked them to turn the foundation 180 degrees and note how the Ys are now facing up. All the bobble heads are bobbling up and down. OMG Madge. The Ys! Then she explains the real issue. It seems that when the Ys are facing down, while facing the center comb, the Y part forms a shelf on which the queen lays an egg. This egg, because it is on the Y shelf, is as should be. BUT, if the Y is facing up, and the queen lays an egg on that supposed shelf, the egg is facing down. Because it is down-facing, the bees will supersede using that down-facing larvae. Really??
I asked her if she believed that theory, does it mean that the bees only supersede on one side of the comb. Really?? So, if the Ys are facing down on the center facing comb, aren't the Ys always facing up on the opposite side of the comb? Every time? Yes that are. and do the bees therefore, supersede??
Again...Poppycock.

was there alcohol imbibed during this gathering?
Or something a bit more 'exotic'?

 

[Finman]

If you housel the foundations, but how can you housel frames?

 

[Apiarist]

It has been briefly discussed here before, but not for a while from what I can see. Has anyone on the forum given this a good try?
Any comments or conclusions welcome!

This is probably the best Article I can find to explain the concept to those unfamiliar with it,
https://www.apiservices.biz/en/articles/sort-by-popularity/772-housel-positioning-2002(NB: READ Michael Palmer's Post #3 above before coming to any conclusions)

My two cents:
I want to believe in Ms. Lusby's teachings, or the theories that she puts forward to give a narrative to why bees do what they do, moving towards a more natural beekeeping, but I do not have the faith... IF such explanations (theories/narratives) are correct, surely it would have been reasonably easy for a Research Paper to be published on the subject...

 

[Michael Palmer]

Two things…
First, the Ys are just where three cells come together on the opposite side of the foundation.
Second, I have observed that shelf in foundation as it was being drawn out, but gone after the first round of brood. I’ve grafted tens of thousands of larvae for queen cell production. I have yet to see a cell with a shelf

 

[Michael Palmer]

If you housel the foundations, but how can you housel frames?

Turn the frame with foundation installed 180 degrees, end to end.

 

[Finman]

Turn the frame with foundation installed 180 degrees, end to end.

To what direction. Left or right. Can I turn the whole box?

If I turn the frame or change its place, it does not fit to neighbour frame. I prefer not to do that.

This is first time when I meet housel term.

 

[Murox]

well i never.............theres me thinking that the cells were all O's placed on top of each other and that the Y's were formed because the side wall of the O had sagged into the gaps the O's leave when placed on top of each other/side by side. perhaps the AYe's have it.

 

[Apiarist]

I think that the bees make the cells as circles, but then they heat them to a temp. that makes the beeswax err snap into place, forming a hex shape, similar to the way multiple soap bubbles snap together when they make contact, to create flat surfaces between them.

 

[Finman]

I think that the bees make the cells as circles, but then they heat them to a temp. that makes the beeswax err snap into place, forming a hex shape,

To me those natural cells seems hexaconal
From very beginning

 

[Erichalfbee]

i must admit I’ve never heard of this so went looking. I found this on Beesource, where Michael posted more or less what he said here.

"Housel" is a case study in the sociology of belief groups. An abstruse, gnostic practice that is used to define in-group membership, and exclude the non-believers.

The practice is all about how human social groups define their "hive" to include only the select.

 

[Finman]

I have no idea what is housel and what it has to do with frames. No imagination.

Social groups hive.... what....

 

[pargyle]

It's even a bit too far for me and I thought I was a bit wayward !

Dowsing anyone ? Might as well have some fireworks as new years eve approaches

 

[Erichalfbee]

Your dowsing rods work, Philip. My potting shed is on a confluence of six lines. I’m impressed that both stan and I found them.

 

[pargyle]

Your dowsing rods work, Philip. My potting shed is on a confluence of six lines. I’m impressed that both stan and I found them.

Your seedlings and cuttings will do well if you start them off there then !

 

[Erichalfbee]

Your seedlings and cuttings will do well if you start them off there then !

It’s full of bee hives

 

[Erichalfbee]

Your seedlings and cuttings will do well if you start them off there then !

Even parsnips?

 

[Garry R]

Hexagons are the strongest structure so each hexagon has two verticals each of which is shared with the adjacent cell on each side. There is only one position for this. Any other orientation of a hexagon would just collapse as comb. There MUST be the two VERTICAL sides for integrity. The Ys are of no great structural significane just something incidental which happens when the next cell DOWNWARDS and sideways is built, again providing the next vertical at the low point of the cell above and so on as the comb is built up. with an internal angle of 120degrees. The cell only takes up a "round" look as it is used, capped, uncapped and cleaned and polished several times. Holdiif a piece of foundation up to the light and you will see the cell bases on each side are intercalated. If there are slight discrepancies on the base the bees seem to be able to sort it out in the comb building.