Honey Super Frames Advice

[Pansypots]

I usually use Hoffman frames (BSN) and place 11 or 12 frames in the super. Having done some reading on here I’m thinking this year of using 10 and allowing the girls to draw out wider comb. If I start off with undrawn SN1 frames do I use wide or narrow spacers? If I use narrow to keep the bee space then I get a gap at one end but if I use wide spacers to fit 10 will they not just glue and wax them all up? What’s the best way to use 10 frames in a BS super? Thanks.

 

[colinc]

If you put 10 foundation in you may get masses of bridging comb. Get them to draw with 11 or 12 squeezed in then once drawn and filling remove 1 or 2 and space them evenly.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I usually use Hoffman frames (BSN) and place 11 or 12 frames in the super. Having done some reading on here I’m thinking this year of using 10 and allowing the girls to draw out wider comb. If I start off with undrawn SN1 frames do I use wide or narrow spacers? If I use narrow to keep the bee space then I get a gap at one end but if I use wide spacers to fit 10 will they not just glue and wax them all up? What’s the best way to use 10 frames in a BS super? Thanks.

put the plastic spacers where they belong - in the (recycling) bin and get some galvanised ten frame castellations. - you can still used the frames with Hoffman spacers with your castellations - no need to waste good drawn comb by forcing them to make new. If you need more frames anyway, checkerboard the new frames with foundation in between already drawn frames. In the past I have found you will usually get away with putting a whole boxful of ten frames with foundation and they will draw it without being creative, although as Manley said 'bees do nothing invariably' so it's safer to start will eleven and then space them out.

 

[JamezF]

it's safer to start will eleven and then space them out.

Which presumably precludes the use of ten-frame castellations. Do you keep a few supers that will hold eleven frames to get them drawn out, or just put ten in and deal with any mess if they make it? Or do you have some other cunning plan?

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Which presumably precludes the use of ten-frame castellations. Do you keep a few supers that will hold eleven frames to get them drawn out, or just put ten in and deal with any mess if they make it? Or do you have some other cunning plan?

James

I've always used ten frame castellations - even with a box full of foundation I've only once ever had a problem - and that was with a box full of Manleys, probably because it went on when the flow had slowed down a bit.
Using Manleys doesn't give the beekeeper the luxury of starting out with eleven, I Know a few bee farmers who exclusively use Manleys and I've never heard them mentioning issues with brace comb.

 

[pargyle]

Which presumably precludes the use of ten-frame castellations. Do you keep a few supers that will hold eleven frames to get them drawn out, or just put ten in and deal with any mess if they make it? Or do you have some other cunning plan?

James

I have a couple of supers that I keep with rails rather than castellations so if I am looking to draw out new super frames I can space then however I want - but I'm foundationless and I always draw new frames out by putting the empty ones between drawn ones. But ... once you have a few supers of drawn frames the new frames can just be inserted in between drawn frames in supers with castellations. The bees seem to keep things reasonably straight although I find that some of my frames can be a bit fat and knobbly at times. A bread knife when extraction is complete sorts that out.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I started by getting them drawn on 11 then moving them to 10 but putting foundation between drawn frames in a 10 box seems to work most of the time. Sometimes the bees just increase the drawn frame.
I keep the odd box with rails for extra brood room.

 

[robinharman]

Start on 11s, then 10s then finally 9s. 9s are virtually always the heaviest and 11s the lightest (as a full super)

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I always put any new frames of foundation inbetween drawn frames on castleations as Jenkins mentioned, we use wide spacers on every other frame if there's no castleations fitted, again between drawn comb. Borage is different matter, they get two boxes of either foundation in Hoffman frames, or two boxes of rounds, then two drawn above, seems to work ok.
Never had any issues with full boxes of foundation in Manley frames strangely. We are gradually moving away from national supers onto commercial with Manleys, we have found we get a better lb per colonie average, even within the same apiary, same genetics etc.

My theory is the size/shape/ style of the frame may suit what the bees would produce themselves, but as ever, I may be wrong.

 

[drex]

I Have no problem. All my supers are 10 castellations. Never have bridge comb built on a complete box of foundation (SN1)

 

[Into the lions den]

My advice is to keep the same spacing all the way up. The satisfaction of fat combs, and the marginal saving at extracting time are one side of the equation only.....
We have always found that colonies on the same spacing all the way up congest less, have fewer issues with 'hanging out' in flows, and outproduce those on different spacings. Its a difficult calculation but the effect is noticeable. I would SUGGEST (but cannot prove) that the increase in production outweighs the factors that encourage people to use less frames.

Also...we always use rails, never castellations, which we always ripped out and replaced when (in the distant past) we acquired second hand kit.

I can see why people use them, especially if on the very basic DN1 or SN1 frames, but they also hamper manipulations making working the bees considerably slower, but that is only important when scaling up. If you think you might EVER scale up, don't put a limiting factor into your operation right at the start.

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

My advice is to keep the same spacing all the way up. The satisfaction of fat combs, and the marginal saving at extracting time are one side of the equation only.....
We have always found that colonies on the same spacing all the way up congest less, have fewer issues with 'hanging out' in flows, and outproduce those on different spacings. Its a difficult calculation but the effect is noticeable. I would SUGGEST (but cannot prove) that the increase in production outweighs the factors that encourage people to use less frames.

Also...we always use rails, never castellations, which we always ripped out and replaced when (in the distant past) we acquired second hand kit.

I can see why people use them, especially if on the very basic DN1 or SN1 frames, but they also hamper manipulations making working the bees considerably slower, but that is only important when scaling up. If you think you might EVER scale up, don't put a limiting factor into your operation right at the start.

Maybe that's why we get better averages with commercial boxes, would make sense having consistent spacings with the manley frames.