'Honey never heated above hive temperature'

[BeeKeyPlayer]

'Honey never heated above hive temperature'

I've come across this claim from time to time. It's not one I'd be able to make. I usually melt solid honey in buckets at around 45°C. Recently I tried 36°C and nearly a week later the honey was soft but but looked like creamed honey. A few hours later at 45°C it was completely clear.

No doubt different honeys respond differently to warming. Mine is mixed floral honey (fruit trees for spring honey) and doesn't solidify for weeks or even months. I'd be interested to hear your comments.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've come across this claim from time to time.

you'll come across all kinds of claims at the fringe areas of beekeeping, most are crackpot, made up and mean very little - best ignored. you will struggle to re-liquefy most honeys at 37 ish degrees C, it usually means keeping it at that temperature for days on end which will probably do more damage - to the honey and the end consumer - than a quick blast at a higher temperature

 

[pargyle]

'Honey never heated above hive temperature'

I've come across this claim from time to time. It's not one I'd be able to make. I usually melt solid honey in buckets at around 45°C. Recently I tried 36°C and nearly a week later the honey was soft but but looked like creamed honey. A few hours later at 45°C it was completely clear.

No doubt different honeys respond differently to warming. Mine is mixed floral honey (fruit trees for spring honey) and doesn't solidify for weeks or even months. I'd be interested to hear your comments.

I set my Lidl Jam maker at 43 degrees ... but that's the temperature of the water bath - I've checked the temperature of the honey in the bucket and it's never shown more than about 38 degrees although I suspect that it's warmer near the bucket sides ? You may be worrying unnecessarily ... how do you heat your buckets ?

 

[Wilco]

I have the oven calibrated to mid to high 30s using an external thermometer and find it liquefies honey in jars overnight just fine.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I set my Lidl Jam maker at 43 degrees ... but that's the temperature of the water bath - I've checked the temperature of the honey in the bucket and it's never shown more than about 38 degrees although I suspect that it's warmer near the bucket sides ? You may be worrying unnecessarily ... how do you heat your buckets ?

I heat my buckets in a chest freezer with tube heaters and an STC thermostat - though my oven is very precise too. I'm not worried that I heat at a higher than hive temperature. I remember hearing in Module two classes to you can delay granulation by warming honey at 49C (120F) for 4 hours followed by 45 minutes at 60C. I thought this was weirdly prescriptive but it reassured me that it was okay to warm honey for a limited time at these 'higher than hive temperatures'. And all the stuff I've read about time and temp in relation to HMF has confirmed that is the case.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I heat my buckets in a chest freezer with tube heaters and an STC thermostat - though my oven is very precise too. I'm not worried that I heat at a higher than hive temperature. I remember hearing in Module two classes to you can delay granulation by warming honey at 49C (120F) for 4 hours followed by 45 minutes at 60C. I thought this was weirdly prescriptive but it reassured me that it was okay to warm honey for a limited time at these 'higher than hive temperatures'. And all the stuff I've read about time and temp in relation to HMF has confirmed that is the case.

Maybe it's more about the taste than the HMF?
There's a heck of a lot of HMF in jam and caramel

 

[Erichalfbee]

I set my Lidl Jam maker at 43 degrees ... but that's the temperature of the water bath - I've checked the temperature of the honey in the bucket and it's never shown more than about 38 degrees although I suspect that it's warmer near the bucket sides ? You may be worrying unnecessarily ... how do you heat your buckets ?

Same here but I've never thought of actually checking the honey temperature

 

[Newbeeneil]

I set my Lidl Jam maker at 43 degrees ... but that's the temperature of the water bath - I've checked the temperature of the honey in the bucket and it's never shown more than about 38 degrees although I suspect that it's warmer near the bucket sides ? You may be worrying unnecessarily ... how do you heat your buckets ?

I agree Philip. I warm my buckets and cloudy jars in my warming cabinet set at 45 degrees and although the air temp in there is correct when checked with a stand alone thermometer the honey never seems to get above about 39-40 degrees. That temperature seems high enough for melting set honey and clearing granulating honey.

 

[user 819]

I set my stc 1000 to 39.5c and the two small tube heaters between them melt a bucket within 48hrs. I have one heater placed top and bottom of an old fridge, after 24hrs I stir the bucket thouroghly and decant it into my bucket which has the honey tap on it.

 

[fian]

I usually leave the honey in the drum for 2 or 3 weeks. Then I bottle little by little, having all the honey packaged in a week. In general, in 1kg cans, but also some 1-litre ones. There are smaller jars but you have to play in other more "technical" markets.
It holds up very well and begins to precipitate very slowly at 9 months.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Maybe it's more about the taste than the HMF?
There's a heck of a lot of HMF in jam and caramel

I agree, though I find it takes a fair bit of heating before honey develops a caramelly taste. (Years ago I bought a jar of honey that tasted like that. It seemed special and I spent ages trying to find it again! I think it was simply a jar that had been in the shop for years.)

As I understand things, HMF is not relevant as regards humans' diets. It's presence in honey is simply used as a measure of the extent of heating that has taken place in honey production. Honey production at an industrial level is reputed to using higher level heating to improve the shelf life of runny honey, and that is a BAD THING because it causes deterioration of the finer constituents of honey. And so we have regulations which include among many other things, maximum HMF levels.

None of us want to heat honey more than needed to make it possible to jar it, and possibly extend the period before it granulates (again). I've found that my honey needs to be warmed higher than hive temperature to reliquefy it. I wondered how realistic it was to aspire to the claim that one's honey was never heated above hive temperature. Some of you do actually manage that.

One thing I have picked up here is that the surface temperature of a honey bucket is not necessarily the same as the temperature of the honey itself.

Thanks for your comments!

 

[Amari]

Our local farmers' market has a honey stall** with notices proclaiming it to be Raw Honey, a claim repeated by the stall holder. Feigning ignorance & innocence I asked her the meaning of 'Raw'. She replied that her honey has not been treated in any way. Disingenuous because most of her wares are absolutely clear runny honey which I suspect has been fine-filtered and heated to delay crystallisation. I decided not to challenge her......

** not to be confused with the monthly stall selling the produce of Stowmarket BKA.

 

[fian]

Our local farmers' market has a honey stall** with notices proclaiming it to be Raw Honey, a claim repeated by the stall holder. Feigning ignorance & innocence I asked her the meaning of 'Raw'. She replied that her honey has not been treated in any way. Disingenuous because most of her wares are absolutely clear runny honey which I suspect has been fine-filtered and heated to delay crystallisation. I decided not to challenge her......

** not to be confused with the monthly stall selling the produce of Stowmarket BKA.

As you said my honey does not heat up, I harvest in August so room temperature is enough to pack. I don't filter it too much either, and in the upper part of the jar you can see a circle of fine wax particles.
If the honey from these local holder has a wax ring on the edge of the jar, it is very possible that you are right.
Finally, HMF is carcinogenic and therefore its content is limited.

 

[Erichalfbee]

my honey does not heat up, I harvest in August so room temperature is enough to pack.

The trouble is that a lot of us have more honey than we can sell straightaway so it goes into storage in buckets where it granulates

 

[fian]

The trouble is that a lot of us have more honey than we can sell straightaway so it goes into storage in buckets where it granulates

I sell my honey throughout the year, it is packaged all over a week after the rest period. Except for a year when the honey granulates very soon (one month) it usually takes more than 9 months to begin to precipitate. That year the honey was too wet, viscous but not always capped. Now I only harvest capped comb. If it is not capped, it is left in a rise to reinforce a hive of a year.

 

[Poly Hive]

I find that the temp of the honey in the bucket is the same as the STC setting after 24 hours or so. I use a thermometer in the bucket with an external output.

PH

 

[jeff33]

I get some issues when reheating jarred honey which has granulated. As it is only strained in the standard dble strainer I get fine particles of wax and pollen getting through. If I reheat it slightly too much and it gets too runny I end up with all those particles resting at the bottom of the jar which is no good for selling.

 

[Ian123]

I get some issues when reheating jarred honey which has granulated. As it is only strained in the standard dble strainer I get fine particles of wax and pollen getting through. If I reheat it slightly too much and it gets too runny I end up with all those particles resting at the bottom of the jar which is no good for selling.

I double strain into buckets and store..once melted and warm I pour through a fine micron cloth into the bottling tank and it’s left to settle.

 

[drdrday]

'Honey never treated above hive temperature' is a claim I could easily make on 95% of the honey I sell.
My honey typically doesn't set for many months, usually well over a year. I'm still jarring honey from spring last year and haven't had to heat any of it yet.
I'm not saying that everyone that makes this claim is honest and it's not a claim I'd bother with personally, but it is perfectly possible, just depends on the fructose/glucose ratio in a particular rop of honey.
If I take off a later ivy crop, I tend to keep this for myself or for making mead etc. as I know this will set much faster than ny spring/summer honey.

 

[Amari]

'Honey never treated above hive temperature' is a claim I could easily make on 95% of the honey I sell.
My honey typically doesn't set for many months, usually well over a year. I'm still jarring honey from spring last year and haven't had to heat any of it yet.
I'm not saying that everyone that makes this claim is honest and it's not a claim I'd bother with personally, but it is perfectly possible, just depends on the fructose/glucose ratio in a particular rop of honey.
If I take off a later ivy crop, I tend to keep this for myself or for making mead etc. as I know this will set much faster than ny spring/summer honey.

Presumably no OSR your way? My spring crop crystallises within a few days.