Honey everywhere but where I want it

[B+.]

Understood, as she fills the space at the top does she not just move down the chimney and the cells above are filled with stores after they hatch though?

As in most things in beekeeping: that depends.
If it is cool outside and little fresh nectar is coming in (as in early spring) she may do much as you desribe. However, as she increases her egg-laying, the chimney has to widen (at the top first then lower down if she is laying faster than the bees are emerging higher up). If she is really prolific, she may fill both brood boxes before those in the top have matured and emerged.

 

[Teemore]

You could just let them continue as they are. If the colony has access to a brood space larger than they feel they need, they will put their stores in it which is what has happened with your colony.
I'll suggest that you assess whether this colony actually needs two brood boxes at present in which to raise brood. How many frames are there with brood on in the two brood boxes?
If they really just need a single brood box, reorganise the hive a little. Why not move all the brood frames containing stored/capped honey into the upper brood box and, making sure the queen is in the lower box with all the brood, put the queen excluder between the two brood boxes. Treat the second brood box as a super.

 

[beeno]

Hi all,
I would not reduce the space as this may encourage swarm preparations. I had the same scenario and I put the super between the two brood boxes without QX and they moved all the honey in top brood box into super which I then moved back up with QX under super. Maybe I just got lucky?

 

[sugarbush]

Hi all,
I would not reduce the space as this may encourage swarm preparations. I had the same scenario and I put the super between the two brood boxes without QX and they moved all the honey in top brood box into super which I then moved back up with QX under super. Maybe I just got lucky?

There is a manipulation that some people use to get honey in the appropriate size frames which is similar to what you describe. The honey gets placed in the bottom box with a single frame of sealed brood. The queen and all the remaining brood gets removed and the nurse bees shaken out into the queenright split. Then the queenless section gets supered at the original location and the bees move all the honey up into the supers.

 

[BeeJuice]

Are you thinking about the bees? Do they really need a double brood arrangement? If you start to pull a large brood nest to bits you may cause all sorts of problems, especially as it sounds as if the frames carry nectar too. Could be counterproductive. If the deeps contain substantial amounts of brood then I would be inclined to leave well alone until the brood nest diminishes naturally.
Be careful, it's easy to get fixated on the need to take honey, especially if you have one or few hives. The bees have made the most of the space that you have given them. I would be drawing on this year's experience and optimise the hive for next year, though it really does depend on exactly what you see at the moment. I'm visualising two deeps with large amount of brood (?) = many bees at the peak of season = many mouths to feed, especially if the nectar stops coming in.

I have four hives. All four have been split at some stage over the past 8-10 weeks to avoid swarming. After a period of time - normally about three weeks I reunite the two BBs.

The two hives which began swarm preparations early (10 weeks ago) have been reunited the longest. They now have two BBs full of bees and brood and two supers above which they have drawn out and are filling with honey.

The other two (the subject of this post) were split later. One was only reunited a week ago. As a consequence of the AS the bee numbers are lower than they should be - they therefore have more space than they need and are putting nectar where it suits them. However, they are also drawing out comb in the supers which is a good sign that they might move the honey upstairs at some point.

Does my reading of the situation make sense?

A month or so ago I reunited two hives after an A/S and they began filling the upper BB with honey. In response I put a QE under the upper BB which I intended to treat as a super. It didn't go to plan as the bees decided they were limited for space and made a second attempt at swarming and began preparations with QCs. In response I did a second A/S. I'm therefore reluctant to try to manipulate the BBs in case they are too limited for space again.

I think I'll follow the advice in the post I've quoted. I'm happy for the bees to keep whatever honey they want. I might extract some honey from deeps but I might also redistribute the deep honey frames around the other hives where I have extracted their honey from the supers and left them with little or no honey.

Next year will be year 2 - I'll approach with a better understanding.

Thanks for all replies and advice.

 

[beeno]

Hi all,
Today, I am following my own advice (post 23) on the same colony as it was so successful last time. No activity is super at all. Everyone in double brood boxes with HM, brood and loads of honey. Wish me luck.
Thanks for that input Sugarbush. Something for the future!

 

[thenovice]

As stated by B+, I noticed as well that nectar is usually deposited all over the brood box on a big flow if there is space. only to be moved up into the arc above the brood when it is almost cured. not sure if there is a thermodynamic reason for it or maybe availability of workers that are on the brood or both...

 

[maddydog]

I wouldn't recommend this because they need somewhere to store fresh nectar until they are ready to move it up into the supers. If you reduce the space available in the brood area, the queen will have nowhere to lay and they may start swarming preparations.

It's now the middle of July, how much more room for brooding is likely to be needed? The colony in question failed to fully utilise all of the space during the spring build up and osr flow. Blackberry is over and the OP has no HB nearby.
Overall volume of the hive has not been reduced just the brood nest reorganised. Indeed the OP could extract the honey from the supered deep and place the empty comb in the brood deep if required?

 

[mbc]

Double broods often take a while for the bees to properly take possession of all that space but when the flow does come ( it's here now, and building into next week according to my tea leaves) they can zoom through a few supers so quickly that if you miss it they can get honey bound and lose momentum.
Queen excluders are handy things, widely used by commercial beekeeping operations here and across the Atlantic, don't believe everything you read on the interweb!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Double broods often take a while for the bees to properly take possession of all that space but when the flow does come ( it's here now, and building into next week according to my tea leaves) they can zoom through a few supers so quickly that if you miss it they can get honey bound and lose momentum.
Queen excluders are handy things, widely used by commercial beekeeping operations here and across the Atlantic, don't believe everything you read on the interweb!

I reckon the trick with QEs is not to fight the bees but to use the QE to reinforce and guarantee the effect of the honey arch. I hate the idea of a frustrated Q bumping along the bottom of one fot hours. Eg that suggests adding space below.


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[B+.]

It's now the middle of July, how much more room for brooding is likely to be needed? The colony in question failed to fully utilise all of the space during the spring build up and osr flow. Blackberry is over and the OP has no HB nearby.

My colonies are still going bonkers foraging on blackberries so they are far from over here (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3744). As for brood area, this depends on the strain of bee and the forage available.

 

[maddydog]

My colonies are still going bonkers foraging on blackberries so they are far from over here (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3744). As for brood area, this depends on the strain of bee and the forage available.

No wonder your stacks are so high with all year round flows
You're right about the bee strain. Us mere mortals are tied to what mongrels we can breed or the varying quality of bought in Queens. How much do you charge for a 3 box wonder queen?

 

[sugarbush]

If you are supering too early than yes some queens will chimney the brood up, but once a good band of honey is established above the brood it is rare that a queen will cross it to lay in the super.

don't believe everything you read on the interweb!

Sound advice, but to quote Mike Bush when asked about queen excluders, "I use them sometimes, but not most times"

Reading through this thread and all the effort put into swarm prevention while not making increase, the thought came to me to advise that you move your excluders down below your brood boxes, then the swarming problem will be solved

Personally I will continue to keep a few around in case I decide to grill up some hot dogs.

 

[B+.]

No wonder your stacks are so high with all year round flows

I wish!
Blackberries would be over here too in a normal year. Everything is about 3 weeks late though.