Hives, Sizes and Management

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For those who are advocates of long hives a quick question (if that's possible asking beekeepers). If you use frames and cover the frame tops with a cloth rather than a board what do you use. I assume something the bees won't nibble through . I used a linen cloth with 50mm Kingspan on the top this year and although the hive did well on 14 x 12 frames based on the Drayton hive the bees did nibble a few holes in the cloth but NOT the foil on the insulation. I could put the board directly on the frame top bars but worry the bees will stick it to the frames and allow the foil to rip when inspecting. Any suggestions for a more resistant cloth material.

I used to use the black weed suppressant material you can get at most garden centres on my nucs

 

[Garry R]

I used to use the black weed suppressant material you can get at most garden centres on my nucs

Thanks. It's pretty tough stuff right enough

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks. It's pretty tough stuff right enough

not the industrial polypropylene type though as they could probably take that apart easily enough - the domestic type which looks like a tougher J-cloth type material

 

[Newbeeneil]

For those who are advocates of long hives a quick question (if that's possible asking beekeepers). If you use frames and cover the frame tops with a cloth rather than a board what do you use. I assume something the bees won't nibble through . I used a linen cloth with 50mm Kingspan on the top this year and although the hive did well on 14 x 12 frames based on the Drayton hive the bees did nibble a few holes in the cloth but NOT the foil on the insulation. I could put the board directly on the frame top bars but worry the bees will stick it to the frames and allow the foil to rip when inspecting. Any suggestions for a more resistant cloth material.

My long hive is based on 2 nationals which means I can use 2 crownboards over the frames and use supers if required.

 

[pargyle]

I know it's winter and traditionally cabin fever sets in but this thread seems to represent a much greater depth of disruption than many from previous years. Light touch moderation is generally a good thing but I start to think there may be room for some "tuning". Maybe use of a few compulsory holidays would clear the decks, especially when the flames are being continuously fanned by very recently joined "contributors".

I rather think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other .... so far it's escaped the mods attention to a great extent ... but there's still time !

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe use of a few compulsory holidays would clear the decks, especially when the flames are being continuously fanned by very recently joined "contributors".

I’m sure it will run its course and folk will move on elsewhere. Just like all the other contentious threads.
Despite the valiant efforts of one member in particular to poke life into it when it wanes I’m sure this one will be no exception

 

[pargyle]

I’m sure it will run its course and folk will move on elsewhere. Just like all the other contentious threads.
Despite the valiant efforts of one member in particular to poke life into it when it wanes I’m sure this one will be no exception

And sadly, it did not need to be that contentious. There's a place for alternative hive formats in beekeeping .. Even those with what some may consider outrageous designs find favour with some people. I like innovation - even when things don't work as well as you hope, if you don't try because someone else says 'it won't work' then you won't learn anything - failure is often a learning opportunity and will provoke a thought process that may have value.

I'm not a fan of brussels sprouts .. some people love them ... I've tried them often enough to know that they are not an acquired taste for me... but ... I was introduced to them a few years ago with a new twist, refried with panchetta and a little garlic and I tried this innovation... they are still not my vegetable of choice but they are sufficiently palatable to eat without wincing. It can be worth trying something different and surprise yourself when you find something better than you imagined.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the attacks were coming from the 'alternative formats' camp others were just asking for justification of the claims.
let's not twist the truth now shall we?

 

[pargyle]

the attacks were coming from the 'alternative formats' camp others were just asking for justification of the claims.
let's not twist the truth now shall we?

Well ... I think there was enough vitriol, poured from both sides, from the offset to satisfy those who prefer argument to reasonable debate and resort to sniping rather than measured response. Passive aggression often takes the form of over enthusiatic questioning ....

 

[Antipodes]

I used to use the black weed suppressant material you can get at most garden centres on my nucs

Good idea...

refried with panchetta and a little garlic and I tried this innovation

..you could also try them cooked up in a little balsamic vinegar.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well ... I think there was enough vitriol, poured from both sides, from the offset to satisfy those who prefer argument to reasonable debate and resort to sniping rather than measured response. Passive aggression often takes the form of over enthusiatic questioning ....

There's nothing like stating opinion as fact to inflame certain souls

 

[fian]

I’m sure it will run its course and folk will move on elsewhere. Just like all the other contentious threads.
Despite the valiant efforts of one member in particular to poke life into it when it wanes I’m sure this one will be no exception

If that goes for me, who opened the post, I'll just tell you that I wanted to make it very clear what the purpose of the post was. If members have different intentions with their comments, it's not my problem that I'm not a forum moderator.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If that goes for me, who opened the post, I'll just tell you that I wanted to make it very clear what the purpose of the post was. If members have different intentions with their comments, it's not my problem that I'm not a forum moderator.

No I didn’t mean you at all.

 

[pargyle]

There's nothing like stating opinion as fact to inflame certain souls

Happens all the time in beekeeping circles .... and on here. I'd like to think, particularly at this time of year, that we could be more gentle and understanding in the way we challenge other people's beliefs. Be more understanding of how others think and occasionally what may lie behimd those thoughts. Season of goodwill has started ....

 

[rdartington]

For those who are advocates of long hives a quick question (if that's possible asking beekeepers). If you use frames and cover the frame tops with a cloth rather than a board what do you use. I assume something the bees won't nibble through . I used a linen cloth with 50mm Kingspan on the top this year and although the hive did well on 14 x 12 frames based on the Drayton hive the bees did nibble a few holes in the cloth but NOT the foil on the insulation. I could put the board directly on the frame top bars but worry the bees will stick it to the frames and allow the foil to rip when inspecting. Any suggestions for a more resistant cloth material.

I use smooth faced hessian, bought from a Market stall. Others have got old hessian bags from pet shops - no pet shop here so I don’t know, but rough hessian can have too many bits sticking out.
You are absolutely right not to put foil covered insulation straight over the topbars - it will get stuck down and damaged when you lever it off.

Best i think is to incorporated 5mm of building insulation into the roof, with thin battens around the edge to create an air space. Loose pieces of insulation have quickly got damaged when the roof goes on and off.

 

[rdartington]

Happens all the time in beekeeping circles .... and on here. I'd like to think, particularly at this time of year, that we could be more gentle and understanding in the way we challenge other people's beliefs. Be more understanding of how others think and occasionally what may lie behimd those thoughts. Season of goodwill has started ....

I’m all for being gentle and understanding in everything, especially when managing honeybees.

My problem is not understanding by what process an objective observation on the way bees live evolves from first being ‘noted to occur’, to a ‘tested observation through repetition’, to an ‘expressed shared belief’, to ‘acceptance as ‘fact’ by some readers’, to ‘general acceptance as fact’, to ‘universal acceptance’ if ever. Consider the ‘fact’ that some people still believe the Earth is flat - and many believe vaccination is more dangerous than getting an disease.

Would always inserting ‘In my view, …. before any statement of fact , avoid calling down coals on one’s head from non-believers? Or is it fair to assume everyone always undetstands that all statements are only ever a view, expressed somewhere along the route from ‘observation’ to ‘universal acceptance?

I suspect that there will always be the problem of personal standards on excellence, as shown when we have had ‘bees will live in any box, so why fuss about particular shapes?

What about the moderators laying down some rules?

 

[pargyle]

I’m all for being gentle and understanding in everything, especially when managing honeybees.

My problem is not understanding by what process an objective observation on the way bees live evolves from first being ‘noted to occur’, to a ‘tested observation through repetition’, to an ‘expressed shared belief’, to ‘acceptance as ‘fact’ by some readers’, to ‘general acceptance as fact’, to ‘universal acceptance’ if ever. Consider the ‘fact’ that some people still believe the Earth is flat - and many believe vaccination is more dangerous than getting an disease.

Would always inserting ‘In my view, …. before any statement of fact , avoid calling down coals on one’s head from non-believers? Or is it fair to assume everyone always undetstands that all statements are only ever a view, expressed somewhere along the route from ‘observation’ to ‘universal acceptance?

I suspect that there will always be the problem of personal standards on excellence, as shown when we have had ‘bees will live in any box, so why fuss about particular shapes?

What about the moderators laying down some rules?

This is a lightly moderated forum, it always has been and it thrives, to a great extent, because of that. The original owner of the forum basically laid down three 'rules'...No advertising, keep it clean and kick the ball not the man. There will always be debate on here - it's a broad church and we all have our own ways of keeping bees and our preferred hives. I take a liberal view, I've tried a lot of things in my beekeeping - I've kept what works for me and discarded what doesn't. I'm happy to tell people what I do and explain why and how I do it ... people are free to agree or disagree - I try not to suggest that they SHOULD follow what I do ... we're all adults on here and all individuals. But there are always going to be some people who cannot accept a different point of view and will argue to the point of extinction rather than graciously accepting it's a different point of view and move on ...

The three basic rules are now two as the present owners accept paid advertising - although you can eliminate the adverts by becoming a paid member. The other two 'rules' are what we moderators work to. We edit and delete the occasional post that strays into blue pencil land.. very few people are ever banned these days so I'm not sure that we need any more. I preach tolerance - there's room for all but you will find that there are a few on here who are less tolerant and demand proof of anything. Me ? Well, if someone tells me they see green when I see red - and it does not affect me then I'm happy to accept that this is what they see. If they try to tell me that a red traffic light is green and I'm doing the driving ... I will challenge that opinion.

Beekeeping is an open book .. there's always more than one way of doing something and often there is more than one way of being right. Some of your posts have challenged conventional thinking and that's healthy - I'm afraid, though, you may have to accept challenges from conventional thinkers .... their loss is the way to look at it ...or, at least that's what I do ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

What about the moderators laying down some rules?

They are as Philip says
It’s what were handed down to me by the original owner of the forum and passed to the other moderators of which there are two.

 

[Swarm]

There is also the consideration in the way opinions are challenged. By all means disagree and there are some who, like Phil has said, believe they are always right. Poking fun, throwing insults and such is never a way to achieve reasoned debate.

 

[buffon]

I didn't know whether to post this here or in the "Ross rounds" thread Турецкий Улей Для Сотового Меда, АПИСЛАВИЯ 2014, Ч-1: Turkish Honey, Muglaa - YouTube | Пчеловодство, Домик для пчел, Медан

Similar hive in use Домик для пчел, Пчеловодство, Планы садового дизайна