Hived swarm aftercare / Why select unsealed and not sealed QC when culling?

[ksjs]

I'll reply to your post in full later but I have to say that despite your help and some very useful information, your post comes across as condescending (and is wrong / contains assumptions).

 

[pargyle]

Thanks djg for explaining those points.

I've now spent far too much time on this thread. I'll now leave you to consider all the missed observations and go and look to see who else needs help.

Very mellow post Rab ... you can take a horse to water ....

 

[enrico]

I agree RAB, that was succinct and polite, ksjs you need to accept the help some of us are trying to give in good faith with the limited information we have available. We are not always right but experience and knowledge does count for a lot! I would leave it there!
Good luck
E

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Hi Ksjs. Being a Newbee is not easy. Neither is asking for advice and getting replies in a forum. Very few of us are professional writers and details can often be important when seeking advice.
On getting advice in writing we often, when reading, add vocal inflections that are not actually there, as in the past we have experienced unhelpful attitudes.

You asked a lot of questions and getting a lot of answers can put us under pressure, as we try to take them all in.
As someone who is fairly new to beekeeping I can empathise. I can also see that the answers you got were good and civilised.
Just put the nuc on top of a hive in the same place. Leave them to fly for a day or so and then transfer the frames to the hive just like you would with a nuc. And good luck.
By the way, to help with diffusing the Unhelpful voice, imagine that a computer is answering the question. Computers don't have emotions and attitudes. It worked for me.

 

[ksjs]

I am 99.99% sure I'm not. And definitely not if there were no brood after, say, four days.

I said there were eggs 2-3 days after swarm. Subsequent inspections of what I thought was the parent colony convince me that this was the colony that swarmed and that a small prime swarm was lost. I can't be certain just by looking at numbers of bees however but the timings, status of queen cells and lack of hatched QC are strong evidence.

When I think about the dummying down it confuses me a bit I actually use dividers, but the term often confuses inexperienced beeks.

FWIW I find 'dummying down' seems a better description as dividing suggests, to me at least, that you're splitting a colony.

I'm pretty sure I've read in several places that a swarm should be fed asap.I'm pretty sure you haven't or you need to improve your choice of reading material. I am absolutely sure I have read about not feeding a swarm for the first three days.

This was an off the top of my head comment. Save for the unknown origin swarm, my assessment that there are no hazards associated with feeding a swarm asap wasn't ridiculous. I can't be bothered going through books and you're probably right but to quote from the Comb Management booklet produced by the Welsh Government (I don't know who wrote this but they're obviously intelligent, experienced, have a voice and opinions) "It is good practice to give a swarm about 24 hours to settle in before it is fed". So I jumped the gun a bit, I will know for next time.

Excuse me, but what is pollen if it's not forage? Were all the returning bees carrying pollen, and if not what would you think they were doing?

I don't know why but I see forage as nectar and pollen as pollen i.e. separate things. Sounds like I've made this differentiation up, my mistake. There are numerous bees coming back with 'nothing', I'm assuming they're carrying nectar and just not loaded with pollen. The 'what would you think they were doing' comment wasn't constructive at all.

I guess I'm confused Correct, you are.

In the context of my questions this just reads in a really patronising way. I can't remember every nuance of what I've studied / read about bees. For me a play cup with a larva is just that, it's only when they build it out and it gains texture etc that it becomes a QC. Surely not all filled play cups become QCs? Again I've maybe made assumptions but there's some basis for them and your apparent put down was needless.

My point on dating the QCs was that once they're sealed you can't say when they were made if you didn't note their appearance during the initial stages of QC building. Very simple, they likely swarmed when the first was capped. They do not normally swarm before and only 'some time afterwards' if the weather is inclement.

Good info.

I'd 'disturb' them to check on space. Is that not reason enough?
C'mon, you had already stated they were cramped. How many times do you need to check?

There is a difference between looking down from above and lifting frames out to see what's actually going on.

On June 6th you wrote: I've just hived a swarm Now we find out that it would appear to have swarmed on the June 2nd. Times are important information and it only likely misleads if they are not as indicated.

Use of the present perfect refers to a recently completed action that relates to the present; I didn't hive the swarm on the 6th, it was earlier that week, the 6th was your assumption. I don't know where you got the 2nd from.

Also, does a swarm not just want some time to settle, surely shifting them around makes them think they've found a pretty rubbish new home? I did not suggest that at all. All I said was to give them more spacious accommodation. Just like hiving a newly purchased nucleus colony.

Lifting the frames out of a nuc and putting them into a national seems like shifting them around to me.

I've now spent far too much time on this thread. I'll now leave you to consider all the missed observations and go and look to see who else needs help.

You're so kind! Thanks for deigning to even reply.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You're so kind! Thanks for deigning to even reply.

Hold on there. You've had as much info from RAB as if you'd read the relevant chapters in Hooper.
The chap may be brusque but he's got a lot of us out of serious trouble in the past.
Phew!!!

 

[oliver90owner]

You really are confused aren't?

One point I was wrong with was the swarming I was likely thinking the date was different at the time. BUT on the 6th of June you say:I've just hived a swarm

Read at face value it means just that - you had just hived a swarm. Just to me means immediately prior in that context. Yes, no? Yet on the 10th you say: They swarmed Mon last. Yes, that would be the 3rd, not the second, but certainly not the 6th.

Perhaps you need to get your facts across clearly and not wait until post #16, and four days later. before you apparently change your mind on an important point re the time line.

I divide the hive up with a divider, not the bees! Whoever would think that? The hive would be divided whether there were one two or zero colonies in situ. You are still clearly confused about queen cups and cells, you are confused as to when the colony swarmed or when you hived them. In fact you seem confused about most things.

You're so kind! Thanks for deigning to even reply.

That was at the end of my third reply and to be honest it was clear by then that you were not reading/ learning/understanding or whatever, or perhaps even wanting to. Of course, one hive owners always know best.

My first impression was correct. There was something amiss. Good day.

 

[susbees]

Post deleted as tmi on an already complex scenario. Well done to those trying to help out

 

[Into the lions den]

Just one point to clarify the info about not feeding for a period after the swarm has arrived/been hived.

As RAB pointed out, if you know the origin and it is definitely fully healthy (and you NEED to know how to recognise this) then to be honest there is little to gain from not giving it a feed right away (if the lack of nectar in the field dictates you should).

Swarms are voracious foragers at the start, and if there is any significant forage around, given that they have no brood to feed, they will gain weight rapidly. Feeding thus not really needed.

However, IF there is any chance the swarm comes from an EFB infected colony, which can be hard to tell, then a period devoid of feeding helps. The infective material is on the mouth part, and drawing wax from their stores brought with them from origin tends to cleanse the bees, using up the carried stores from the infected colony by incorporating it in the wax. Once this has been used and some wax drawn then feed. Same as the principle behind shook swarming as an EFB elimination strategy.

 

[drstitson]

Inspections are like hospital tests.

They should only be done for a reason and with intention to act upon the findings if necessary.

anything else is just unnecessary disturbance.

 

[MandF]

ksjs, do persevere with the forum, you are not the first or last person to notice the attitude.

Perhaps others ought to suggest the new posters ignore the attitude if they can, rather than excuse it or indeed pretend there isnt any?

Just a thought if we want to continue to be a forum which welcomes all beekeepers, and indeed welcomes all questions, however 'stupid' or 'confused'.

 

[busybee53]

ksjs. If you do have some books, please take the time to have a look in them. Books have got me out of trouble more than once and when you get used to your book(s) then you can find what you want fairly quickly. I have even added a few extra references to the index in mine to save time.