Hive Ventilation

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Aggravated

New Bee
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
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Location
London
Hive Type
National
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I have heard of two different practices of ventilation to the hive space above the crown board.

I am currently using a varroa mesh floor, so most of the air movement comes from there, but some people are saying to block the holes in the crown board and some are saying leave them open to allow air movement through the hive. Most of the hives I have seen have vents in the roof.

Is there are any benefit of changing from one to the other, summer to winter?

During a lecture from the local bee inspector he said ventilation was very important, even to the extent of him adding extra holes to his own hives

Regards

Agg
 
I like to kep mine on open mesh floors and leave the hole in the crown board open. I think that a through draft is better than stagnant air and there will be no condensation forming above the bees dripping on them in winter. It's the damp not the cold that causes problems.
 
Best not mix up two systems here. Solid floor I allow a bit of ventilation at top (not much needed and bees will regulate try mesh here and bees will plug up what they don't need). OMF I use sealed tops, no need for more again bees will regulate what they need. What they don't need is a cold chimney with both bottom and top open. Good book by Wedmore on ventilation from 40s.
 
1. holes in roof ventilate the roof space.
2. natural colonies have no holes above their heads.
3. adequate top insulation prevents condensation.
4. ventilation - bees manage in wild without OMF. no extra needed up top!!!!

so all my hives have solid (polycarbonate) crown boards and 50-100mm kingspan on top over winter.
 
There are a number of informative 'debates' on the subject of hive ventilation on the forum. If you search for these it will help you make an informed choice about whether to provide extra ventilation in your own hives.

To other forumers, please lets not resurrect the argument about top ventilation and no references to match sticks either!!!!
 
All hives should have vents in the roof. The vents in the roof are just that - for venting the roof space.

With OMF, they do not need or even want a through draught, 24/7/52!

Try it with a gauze mesh covering the open hole in the crownboard and let the bees decide.

I know what they will do - they will propolise it over completely or almost completely. That should be enough to persuade all and sundry whether top ventilation is required by the bees.

With OMF and top insulation there has been no condensation problem in any of my hives over about the last ten years.

There will never be stagnant air, while there is a heat source (the bees) in the hive. Simple physics are applicable - warmer air rises, displacing that above. While there is an open floor, the heavier air will always exchange with the outside and the entrance is always open to the exterior (well should be) so there will always be some air movement.

My crownboards are suimple sheets of 9mm ply. No holes, just a plain simple sheet. The bees would not want anything different (they would propolise any hole in the ceiling if it were possible).

RAB
 
Teemore said:
There are a number of informative 'debates' on the subject of hive ventilation on the forum. If you search for these it will help you make an informed choice about whether to provide extra ventilation in your own hives.

To other forumers, please lets not resurrect the argument about top ventilation and no references to match sticks either!!!!
Precisely, the natural situation sees no OMF or added insulation. We only do what we think is best, until another idea comes along.
 
an informed choice

No need at all to be making a choice. Do as I suggested and the bees will decide - after all, they would have to 'endure' through-draughts if enforced on them by the beek,, whether they like it or not. Not rocket science, just plainand simple observation of what the bees want, will do.
 
.
My experience is that all upper entrances and ventilation holes in the upper part of hive are harmfull. The heat escapes and bees cannot control it

First you ventilate too much with mesh floor. And if yoiu use mesh floor, you should not keep upper entrances open.

Based on what - my 50 y experience...

YOu see with your own eys proper ventilation when you count ventilating bees.

When hive is to cold, the queen rises to uppermost box to lay. I know because I do not use excluder. In proper veltilation the queen lays in 2. or 3. box. 1. is too cold.

One sign of too cold in upper boxes is that bees do not store honey near upper hole.

When I use solid bottom + upper entrances the oder is this in normal june honey flow

entrance totaly open 2 cm high
- first box, no hole
- second box with 1,5 cm hole
- thir box no hole
- fourth box 1.5 cm hole
- more boxes, no holes open.

This goes with 6-box hives.

So max 2 upper holes in front wall is good. The more holes keep hives too cold at night.

Outside honey flow or modest honey flow bottom entrance 1 cm x 10-15 cm and 2 upper entrances open or one.


Finland is in summer warmer place than Br-Islands.

We have here too super ventilating guys but it is their business.
 
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Precisely, the natural situation sees no OMF or added insulation. We only do what we think is best, until another idea comes along.

Another improved, studied idea surely, not a 'Let's put some matchsticks under the crown-board because I think that helps' old beekeeper idea.

From very small sample, it appears partial closure of the OMF to raise internal temp gets reluctant Queens laying. The practice needs repetition of course.
 
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All hives should have vents in the roof. The vents in the roof are just that - for venting the roof space.

With OMF, they do not need or even want a through draught, 24/7/52!

Try it with a gauze mesh covering the open hole in the crownboard and let the bees decide.

I know what they will do - they will propolise it over completely or almost completely. That should be enough to persuade all and sundry whether top ventilation is required by the bees.

With OMF and top insulation there has been no condensation problem in any of my hives over about the last ten years.

There will never be stagnant air, while there is a heat source (the bees) in the hive. Simple physics are applicable - warmer air rises, displacing that above. While there is an open floor, the heavier air will always exchange with the outside and the entrance is always open to the exterior (well should be) so there will always be some air movement.

My crownboards are suimple sheets of 9mm ply. No holes, just a plain simple sheet. The bees would not want anything different (they would propolise any hole in the ceiling if it were possible).

RAB

What he said...except that I have a hole in all my crown boards dead centre (and some also have Porter-type at the ends) to accomodate feeders when needed/fondant tubs set in Kingspan in the winter. BUT these are kept blocked off with those useful little ovals from the takeaway tubs the rest of the year - the little rim allows for a neat propolising job. Sorted.
 
Finman

"When hive is to cold, the queen rises to uppermost box to lay. I know because I do not use excluder. In proper veltilation the queen lays in 2. or 3. box. 1. is too cold."

We've had two hives pack the bottom box out with pollen and stores and the second box with brood and some stores and pollen.

On changing places one has slowed her laying.
 
On changing places one has slowed her laying.

It seems to be natural order that bees store pollen in cold parts of brood champer. The sidemost frames are usually full of pollen, frame between wall and brood. And pollen is nearmost brood.

To oblige to lay against mesh fllor is a bad thing. You understand that if solid bottom is totally open, queen want to rise to second box. It does, if you do not have excluder.

If the laying room is too small, sometimes bees put pollen and brood happily mixed. Then the outcome of new bees will be small amount.
 
BBG,
Improved and studied ideas are so often replaced by other ideas and the arguments for this new concept will be roled out and explained as they always are. Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate upper ventilation and I do use OMF's because I see the reasoning behind them. Whether a BB sized cavity with a gaping hole underneath it is the bees natural choice as ideal though, is moot to say the least.

There are some who still use solid floors and some who still use upper ventilation, the point I was making (agreeing with the posted quote) was let's not go through the same ritual criticism of anyone who does so.
 
I have heard of two different practices of ventilation to the hive space above the crown board.

Only TWO? Not been on here long then, have you? There will be general disagreement on this point, but I would imagine, much as with all elements of beekeeping, the choice is dependent upon site, local climate and the preference of the bees. These must be the primary factors taken into account when considering any particular way of doing anything.

Rab is now going to point out I haven't been exact enough in that statement, but I am talking in general terms. In other words, you generally do what works for you until it proves to be counterproductive.
 
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Rab is now going to point out I haven't been exact enough in that statement

No. I am not.

All I say is try the gauze over the otherwise gaping hole and actually watch, observe, absorb and take, the hint from the bees.

As I have said, not rocket science and anyone doing that will never bother to inflict compulsory through-draughts on their colonies ever again. Those that advocate leaving holes in their crownboards need to actually do something to prove the simple oucome is wrong. They often spout, but don't do a great deal in the way of actually demonstrating good reason!
 
:iagree:

I have seen exactly that done with gauze covering a hole on the side of the nuc (hole was for ventilation).

The bees propolised it, the 'beekeeper' removed it, the bees re-propolised, the b....... :rolleyes:

As an aside, a study undertaken by MAFF (now DEFRA) was done on what happened when sheep were sheared - result - they just shivered.

That's OK then.
 
Finman

Thanks for the reply.
 
That is for feeding and not for ventilating.
:iagree: and should be covered when not feeding.
I don't use insulation above crown board
I don't use kingspan or any other insulation above crown board
No holes in roof
Wood will breath naturally
Never had condensation buildup
Varroa inspection tray is out all year only used for monitoring
Matchsticks are a taboo subject here and will not mention it
Luck or not never lost a colony over winter or spring or summer or Autumn
Just my way but not everyone's liking for sure
 
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