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Hive numbers vs CPBV vs imaginations

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Somerford 

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So I posted the bulk of what's to follow on the Political section but to expand on a few parts as it's my blog as such (expanded content underlined and italics)

So I logged on to a local BKA zoom meeting the other night for an hour or so's talk by some beekeepers from the SW on CPBV. I won't name the pair here as that's a bit unfair...but then again maybe I should ?

The CPBV bit was interesting and they had some good images and video of examples they had encountered.

But then they went a bit off piste in my view and started linking CPBV with hive numbers and then the IOW disease in the early 1900s and even the Greeks suggesting a bee that had turned black or something. (TBH you could interpret the Greek quote any way you like but to link it with CPBV was a bit tenuous at best)

They displayed numbers of beehives and beekeepers in the 1900s vs now and suggested we are at peak bee or something and that not only were there too many hives in London, but indicated that in general we ought to consider how many we kept...

So to the questions - they answered or rather discussed a few I put to them but then when they started going on about peak bee and then someone else piped up about pollinators and bumbles all sense left the discussion - tbh I thought Aliens would be blames next and lay lines.

So I 'unmuted' myself and spoke - introduced myself and said I had real issue with the proposition because that's what it was to claim firstly we were at peak bee and then that monocultures were bad. I explained that while London might not be the best place to keep bees from a forage point of view (although they tend to do rather well don't they?) that in the last century many 1000s of hives were taken to Kent to pollinate top fruit, long since grubbed up, and how could that be described as a bad thing ? A Monoculture of fruit trees that helped feed the nation. I also stated that monocultures were also beneficial to bees eg OSR, Borage, Beans for those who don't know what I mean, and that in this country we don't really have monocultures...

In so far as we don't have 200km Sq of almonds or endless fields of OSR as far as the bird can fly - after all we have hedgerows and field margins and trees etc etc all the result of enclosure and farm stewardship schemes.

This started the head shaking from the 'expert' leading the talk. who then spouted alot of unproven sci-babble on monocultures - and I do think we were referring to the UK here as it was by UK beekeepers to UK beekeepers - I asked if I could reply and got a word in before I was muted by the chairman...

It strikes me, and it's far from the first time I've sat in such presentations, that so called experts and also experts have little understanding of the messages they are sending out. They are statements but then the eco-loon brigade snap them up and start making fatuous and completely wide of the mark claims around Apis Mellifera being the harbinger of doom for all other pollinators and out competing them.

What utter nonsense.

Ok seasons have a part to play in the overwintering success or failure of butterflies and other bees as do chemicals but just because you count more honey bees than the others doesn't mean the honey bee is the baddie.

I can also think of an outstanding monoculture that is a veritable haven for all wildlife - well managed heather moors - if you take the claims of the presenters to their conclusion these would be removed too.

and how do you measure a monocultre ? an acre ? a hectare ? a field ? what about a field of wildflower mix ? compared with a field of wheat you could say that's a monoculture of flowers vs wheat...

I stated the facts as they are - that in the UK we produce 14-20% of the honey we consume. Therefore there is the opportunity to increase colonies, well managed colonies, for commercial honey production.

And so to last night - I received the first haranguing email from a novice stating I had belittled her and upset her in my discussion and that she wasn't an eco-lunatic. my email having been handed out to her by the chairman without my permission is that contrary to data protection ?

Honestly - a touchy lot people - the discussion wasn't with her but as she's a 'Guardian of the bees' (is that an official title for bombus lovers bestowed by HM Queen ?) she felt it was aimed at her. Honestly these titles do my head in - a bit like National Treasure - what a load of tosh

Cancel culture ? who knows.

My conclusion is that we need to listen very carefully at the messages being given by presenters and 'experts' and be prepared to challenge (and get the flack back for doing so). It's easy to make statements but it's also easy for the listener to take what is being said as gospel. I don't always get my beekeeping right but I listen to bonafide experts and then adjust what I do. I also take statements and spurious links with history with a pinch of salt because you or I weren't there in the early 1900s, or during the Greek empire for that matter !

Over to my readers - please be kind to one another but be challenging !

KR

S
 

Apple 

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The last beekeepering Zoom meeting I watched held my attention for about 10 minutes....
Then I realised that there was a program on Ancient Aliens on the telly, which was the least to say ... more entertaining!
 

amandaj57 

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And so to last night - I received the first haranguing email from a novice stating I had belittled her and upset her in my discussion and that she wasn't an eco-lunatic. my email having been handed out to her by the chairman without my permission is that contrary to data protection ?
Definitely a data protection issue. This is an excerpt of the 'plain English' version of the rules for groups.

You should request explicit consent if you wish to share personal data with third parties, (unless you need to do so to fulfil a contract, comply with the law, protect someone’s life or fulfil a public task). Third parties might be other organisations, but they might also be members of your own group. Each individual in a group is separate from the group itself, and data should not be shared with group members to use in a personal capacity without explicit consent.
 

Somerford 

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hmm. I might just 'bank' this faux-pas for future use with the chairman of the group in question....after all the emailer could easily find my details on my website or from other email communication as I was the previous chairman of the region...if they could have been bothered to read previous chairmans emails !
 

Buzz Off 

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So I posted the bulk of what's to follow on the Political section but to expand on a few parts as it's my blog as such (expanded content underlined and italics)

So I logged on to a local BKA zoom meeting the other night for an hour or so's talk by some beekeepers from the SW on CPBV. I won't name the pair here as that's a bit unfair...but then again maybe I should ?

The CPBV bit was interesting and they had some good images and video of examples they had encountered.

But then they went a bit off piste in my view and started linking CPBV with hive numbers and then the IOW disease in the early 1900s and even the Greeks suggesting a bee that had turned black or something. (TBH you could interpret the Greek quote any way you like but to link it with CPBV was a bit tenuous at best)

They displayed numbers of beehives and beekeepers in the 1900s vs now and suggested we are at peak bee or something and that not only were there too many hives in London, but indicated that in general we ought to consider how many we kept...

So to the questions - they answered or rather discussed a few I put to them but then when they started going on about peak bee and then someone else piped up about pollinators and bumbles all sense left the discussion - tbh I thought Aliens would be blames next and lay lines.

So I 'unmuted' myself and spoke - introduced myself and said I had real issue with the proposition because that's what it was to claim firstly we were at peak bee and then that monocultures were bad. I explained that while London might not be the best place to keep bees from a forage point of view (although they tend to do rather well don't they?) that in the last century many 1000s of hives were taken to Kent to pollinate top fruit, long since grubbed up, and how could that be described as a bad thing ? A Monoculture of fruit trees that helped feed the nation. I also stated that monocultures were also beneficial to bees eg OSR, Borage, Beans for those who don't know what I mean, and that in this country we don't really have monocultures...

In so far as we don't have 200km Sq of almonds or endless fields of OSR as far as the bird can fly - after all we have hedgerows and field margins and trees etc etc all the result of enclosure and farm stewardship schemes.

This started the head shaking from the 'expert' leading the talk. who then spouted alot of unproven sci-babble on monocultures - and I do think we were referring to the UK here as it was by UK beekeepers to UK beekeepers - I asked if I could reply and got a word in before I was muted by the chairman...

It strikes me, and it's far from the first time I've sat in such presentations, that so called experts and also experts have little understanding of the messages they are sending out. They are statements but then the eco-loon brigade snap them up and start making fatuous and completely wide of the mark claims around Apis Mellifera being the harbinger of doom for all other pollinators and out competing them.

What utter nonsense.

Ok seasons have a part to play in the overwintering success or failure of butterflies and other bees as do chemicals but just because you count more honey bees than the others doesn't mean the honey bee is the baddie.

I can also think of an outstanding monoculture that is a veritable haven for all wildlife - well managed heather moors - if you take the claims of the presenters to their conclusion these would be removed too.

and how do you measure a monocultre ? an acre ? a hectare ? a field ? what about a field of wildflower mix ? compared with a field of wheat you could say that's a monoculture of flowers vs wheat...

I stated the facts as they are - that in the UK we produce 14-20% of the honey we consume. Therefore there is the opportunity to increase colonies, well managed colonies, for commercial honey production.

And so to last night - I received the first haranguing email from a novice stating I had belittled her and upset her in my discussion and that she wasn't an eco-lunatic. my email having been handed out to her by the chairman without my permission is that contrary to data protection ?

Honestly - a touchy lot people - the discussion wasn't with her but as she's a 'Guardian of the bees' (is that an official title for bombus lovers bestowed by HM Queen ?) she felt it was aimed at her. Honestly these titles do my head in - a bit like National Treasure - what a load of tosh

Cancel culture ? who knows.

My conclusion is that we need to listen very carefully at the messages being given by presenters and 'experts' and be prepared to challenge (and get the flack back for doing so). It's easy to make statements but it's also easy for the listener to take what is being said as gospel. I don't always get my beekeeping right but I listen to bonafide experts and then adjust what I do. I also take statements and spurious links with history with a pinch of salt because you or I weren't there in the early 1900s, or during the Greek empire for that matter !

Over to my readers - please be kind to one another but be challenging !

KR

S
When you email someone is it not then their email and they are free to pass it on unless you headed it 'confidential'
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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When you email someone is it not then their email and they are free to pass it on unless you headed it 'confidential'
you obviously are not aware of the new GDPR regulations - what you say is not now the case.
 

hemo 

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One can bet that London is prioritised first.
 

Nige.Coll 

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If it's on par with most of the talks about CBPV then it's a politically bias talk with very little truth, but lots of opinion, delivered by someone that normally blames imports for it to push their agenda. Sadly it's very common.
The downside of zoom, bullshit travels further.
 

Helen Tworkowski 

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Hmmm. I think when name call and belittle people you do yourself a diservice. Be polite, be kind and maybe your views will be listened to.
 

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