Hive clean

[Dave /Oscroft]

hive clean

So someone said " it says you can use it at every inspection" where does it say that?.

and by the way, what about my muck spreading problem !!!!!!!!!

cheers
dave W

 

[Mellivore]

Scientific assessment of Hiveclean

The following paper describes an assessment of the effectiveness of Hiveclean:

 

[BKF Admin]

The following paper describes an assessment of the effectiveness of Hiveclean:

I have removed the link as it directs to a "phishing" website.

 

[Polyanwood]

I've seen a bloke on you tube drinking it lol, I dont think the amount of oxalic acid in it is high, so it could be used on every inspection.

I wouldn't drink it and am careful wiht oxalic acid... I thought oxalate build up in the body caused kidney stones... that are very painful. True of not?

 

[madasafish]

Assessing Oxalic-Acid Risks
The potential problems with oxalates in the human body are two. First, they mean that the metal in them--say calcium--has been made unavailable to the body; if a large amount of oxalic acid is ingested, the oxalates formed mean that the body is being to some degree deprived of certain essential nutrients. For normal, healthy persons, that risk is nearly trivial provided that great amounts of oxalic acid are not consumed on a continuing, long-term basis. The second effect is not chemical but mechanical: the crystals of oxalate, very small but very sharp, can be large enough to irritate the body. The chiefest and most famous example of this is kidney stones--probably 80% of kidney stones derive from calcium oxalate.


http://oxalicacidinfo.com/

 

[mikeharris]

Here's an alternative link to that doc.

http://mluk.net/jas_53_2_2009_2.pdf

Quite interesting reading I thought...

Mike

 

[Bob Bee]

Here's an alternative link to that doc.

http://mluk.net/jas_53_2_2009_2.pdf

Quite interesting reading I thought...

Mike

The case for oxalic treatment is pretty unquestionable, good paper, does anyone have a proper paper on resistance and tolerance ?.

 

[Busy Bee]

I have found Hive Clean to be a load of bollocks.....

Busy Bee

 

[Bob Bee]

I have found Hive Clean to be a load of bollocks.....

Busy Bee

Nice, It does clearly read as a paper sponsored by a commercial product and the information does simply support the efficacy of oxalic treatment rather than the specific product........

I've not come across anybody who raves about Hive Clean, overpriced and generally not as straightforward as simpler treatments.
Im still interested in anything about resistance to oxalic treatments.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

From a quick scan of the paper, it seems to be treatment of the phoretic stage of the varroa. However why no just do the job properly in the winter when there are only phoretic mites with little if any in the brood.

 

[xgeordie]

I have found Hive Clean to be a load of bollocks.....

Busy Bee

Hmm...well I think it is useful. From the Corwall Honey Site:

Use a Varroa mesh floor and a sticky floor and dribble Beevital Hiveclean in the brood box. The next morning, count the number of fallen mites. The result gives a rough idea of infestation level.

In colonies with brood the number of mites doubles every month. If the result of the fallen mite count is higher than 15 within a 24 hour period, an intensive treatment consisting of 3 sequential applications is needed, as described below.

This course of treatment takes into consideration the breeding period of the mite. As the development of the mite - from egg to adult - takes approximately 7-8 days, a course of treatment over 18-20 days ensures close to 100% efficiency in eliminating Varroa mites from your hive.


1st treatment should take place on the 1st day - This will be efficient until the 8th day.


2nd treatment should take place on the 6th day - This will be efficient until the 14th day.


3rd treatment should take place on the 13th day - This will be efficient until the 18th day.

In this way, at the end of the summer, the colony will be prepared for a safe overwintering

I still use oxalic in Dec though.

 

[SixFooter]

1st treatment should take place on the 1st day - This will be efficient until the 8th day.


2nd treatment should take place on the 6th day - This will be efficient until the 14th day.


3rd treatment should take place on the 13th day - This will be efficient until the 18th day.

In this way, at the end of the summer, the colony will be prepared for a safe overwintering[/I]

I still use oxalic in Dec though.

This is what I do and it seems to work.

 

[Moggett]

A litre of Bells Whiskey from a well known supermarket = £16. Half litre of Hiveclean = £18. The mark-up must be enormous even though the whiskey may be a loss leader deal (but it does have additional excise duty which HC doesn't). Pity whiskey doesn't kill varroa - it would be cheaper!

If you have a few colonies and use every inspection you could go through a few bottles a year - esp as it has a limited shelf life.

 

[Queens59]

Pity whiskey doesn't kill varroa - it would be cheaper!

OK - Who's going to be the first???

 

[Moggett]

Someone will do a study that suggests that the mites get p***ed and fall off the bees. Those females that survive have hangovers/headaches so don't feel like mating.... ;-)

 

[mbc]

Pity whiskey doesn't kill varroa - it would be cheaper!

It does, very effectively, the only pity is that it also kills the bees !

 

[Moggett]

so does oxalic acid if it's not diluted... obviously you would need a mixer with it such as lemonade which means it would be even cheaper!!!!!

 

[laserwill]

Hive clean LD50

Of course it makes good business sense to encourage the use of Hiveclean throughout the year. Treatments containing multiple ingredients are difficult to assess. Lets assume that the oxalic acid is the main active ingredient, then it is an expensive way of buying oxalic acid, and if there is sugar in the mix then the acid will gradually turn this to HMF which is toxic to bees. I bought a bottle of Hiveclean once and the use by date had been covered by a sticky label to extend its supposed life considerably. I didn't use it and have not trusted them since.
About the safe to drink stunt on YouTube and also performed at trade fairs...
Oxalic acid is readily broken down to simple chemicals in our bodies and is itself a breakdown product of vitamin C, it is therefore quite safe in small doses, and is a regular component of our diets. However the breakdown chemistry can be swamped if enough is taken and then it is rapidly toxic. The lethal dose for a 65 kg man is estimated to be 25 grams which will cause death in half the individuals. Less than half this should kill a 6 year old child. It is clearly irresponsible to promote the consumption of 'medicines' in this way.

 

[RoofTops]

The case for oxalic treatment is pretty unquestionable, good paper, does anyone have a proper paper on resistance and tolerance ?.

From what I have heard it is thought highly unlikely varroa will develop a resistance to OA as it works at a physical level, in the sense of burning away the delicate tissues around places like the mouth parts.

The evidence supports this as despite wide usage for a number of years resistance has not yet been reported.

HiveClean is a low dose OA treatment. Varroa Gard is a similar thing although it is used differently and has a few extra ingredients.

 

[laserwill]

"HiveClean is a low dose OA treatment."
Rooftops - Have you any idea how low a dose ? or what the concentration of oxalic acid is in Hiveclean? does 2.5% mean about 25gms in a litre?