Helping wintering with electrict heating

[Finman]

If you think to help the small colony with electricity, do this first:

Question is about 4-3 frame nucs. I have now 6 frame what I am going to heat.

- buy or make a poly nuc.
- no mesh floor
- entrance 3 cm x 1 cm. Pen size upper entrance, that air moves and moisture flows out. About 6 mm.

Maximum 3 W heating. Put the heater inside a thin aluminium sheet that heat spreads on wide area.
Put the heater to upper part of hive.
You may look under cover and then you see, how bees stay in cluster. If they walk around, heater is too strong.

The heater keeps the interior dry. No need to be afraid of condensation.

In autumn, when out temp is over zero, a big colony uses abiut 3 W heat.

When colony is twist size, heater is like a big colony and the small cluster is like a part of big colony.
Cluster is devided to seams what combs devide and keep apart.

When heat source is up, and bees try go down, they notice that it is winter out there.

Hive warming is widely used in Hungary. I have used 10 years..

 

[Finman]

.
I have wintered even 1 frame colonies with electtict in - 20C Winter. IT succeeds, but that size colony is not able to rear brood in spring. And small colony is easy to get nosema.

. After all, I do not recommend small colonies. They are mere nuisance when biggest interest has expired.

 

[user 6228]

its not necessary to heat providing the hive conductance is low enough (high insulation). For smaller colonies you need to keep the mass conductance ratio the same as it would be in a full colony in a full hive. for a 0.2 kg colony the conductance has to be 5 times lower than a 1kg colony.
The mass conductance ratio detemines the internal temperature of hive given the same outdoor conditions and bee stress.

Mitchell D (2015) Ratios of colony mass to thermal conductance of tree and man-made nest enclosures of Apis mellifera: implications for survival, clustering, humidity regulation and Varroa destructor.
Int J Biometeorol. 2015 Sep 3. [Epub ahead of print]

 

[Hawklord]

Pen size upper entrance, that air moves and moisture flows out. About 6 mm.

Similar to the hole in the crown board.

 

[Finman]

Similar to the hole in the crown board.

No. Moist air goes into loft.

 

[Hawklord]

My point is that any hole above the brood will allow heat to escape.

 

[user 6228]

My point is that any hole above the brood will allow heat to escape.

True, but when the insulation is poor to start with the amount lost can quite small.


Lin Y.J. & Xu Z.Y. (2013) Buoyancy-driven flows by a heat source at different levels. Int J Heat Mass Tran 58:312-321 doi:10.1016/j.ijheatmasstransfer.2012.11.008.
Linden P.F. (1999) The Fluid Mechanics of Natural ventilation. Annu. Rev. Fluid Mech 31:201-238 doi:10.1146/annurev.fluid.31.1.20.

 

[Finman]

My point is that any hole above the brood will allow heat to escape.

I do not understand what that means. But respiration moisture moves out via hole, anyway. Little draft is needed. Like in human houses ventilation hole is in upper part of room. And do not lead ventilation into the loft.

Winter ventilation should be looked as a whole, not as individual points. Most beekeepers do not mind, how it is.

 

[Finman]

True, but when the insulation is poor to start with the amount lost can quite small.


Lin Y.J. & Xu Z.Y. (2013) Buoyancy-driven flows by a heat source at different levels. Int J Heat Mass Tran 58:312-321 doi:10.1016/j.ijheatmasstransfer.2012.11.008.
Linden P.F. (1999) The Fluid Mechanics of Natural ventilation. Annu. Rev. Fluid Mech 31:201-238 doi:10.1146/annurev.fluid.31.1.20.

No one understand this kind of advices.

 

[user 6228]

No one understand this kind of advices.

Don't patronise your fellow beekeepers

 

[bpmurray]

True, but when the insulation is poor to start with the amount lost can quite small.


Lin Y.J. & Xu Z.Y. (2013) Buoyancy-driven flows by a heat source at different levels. Int J Heat Mass Tran 58:312-321 doi:10.1016/j.ijheatmasstransfer.2012.11.008.
Linden P.F. (1999) The Fluid Mechanics of Natural ventilation. Annu. Rev. Fluid Mech 31:201-238 doi:10.1146/annurev.fluid.31.1.20.

Not helpful - the first one costs $39.95 and the second is $32.

 

[Finman]

Don't patronise your fellow beekeepers

pen size hole and that size howling. It cannot be.

.

 

[For want of a better word]

My TBH has a quilt made from 6 inches of compacted alpacca wool, this allows a high degree of insulation and moisture control.

Not expecting minus 20 degrees here in the semi sub tropical GreatgreygreengreasyTamarvalleyallsetaboutwithsocialhousing.....
but with global climate change who knows...
advice on hive heaters may be useful to those beekeeperers in Yorkshire and the frozen norf!

Yeghes da

 

[Honeybeeco]

Electric heating is something we've thought about here, at our 1000 ft Nuc and hive apiary due to the high winds, driving rain and then horrible snow, so they are that little stronger in colony size coming out of winter.

We also have small upper entrances on all our hives and nucs, due to the huge snow drifts we have most years, and they have never cause any loss of a colony.

The only thing that has stopped us doing the electric bit is that every year we do lose electric for several days due to the rain, wind and snow, so the extra drain on the automatic generator might be the difference of lasting the 7 ish days we have no mains power usually - 2 years ago, it took us and the council a week to get into ourside of the village from either end, our Quads, 4x4's couldn't get out either, thus the upper entrances are needed as snow is tall here

Either way, thank you Finman for that bit of advice and for raising the subject.

 

[Hivemaker.]

We also have small upper entrances on all our hives and nucs, due to the huge snow drifts we have most years,

How huge/deep are the snow drifts where you have beehives usually?

 

[Finman]

How huge/deep are the snow drifts where you have beehives usually?

During last 20 years snow hight has been mostly 30 cm. Last year 10 cm

Climate has became warmer. During years 1973-1990 our sea in front of Helsinki was unfreezed once. After that it has been open every second year.

300 km to north climate is very different in winter. Hives are normally covered with snow.

.
We may get snow much in south but it melt away or it goes tigh.



Bees overwinter bétter without snow cover. Wet snow around hive is not good at all.

 

[Finman]

Either way, thank you Finman for that bit of advice and for raising the subject.

Last time when electrict heating was handled in this forum, guys recommended 20 W heating. I have never used that.

3 W is a natural amount of heat of normal hive. The colony has no control over temperature if you give too much heat

Reactions of cluster you can se after one hour when you try these system. It is easy. Just open the cover and look.

Very few use electrict heating but they have however lots of opinions. Best has been of course that I do not love bees if I heat them with electricity. Amen to that.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Bees overwinter bétter without snow cover. Wet snow around hive is not good at all.

Really?? I haven't found that to be true. And electric heaters within the hive...Really?? Well, last winter we had a seriously cold period. -37F, no heaters, and <10% winter loss. I can't imagine relying on electric heaters to keep my bees alive. You really do this??

 

[Finman]

Really?? I haven't found that to be true. And electric heaters within the hive...Really?? Well, last winter we had a seriously cold period. -37F, no heaters, and <10% winter loss. I can't imagine relying on electric heaters to keep my bees alive. You really do this??

I know. All professional beekeepers become mad when they heard about electrict heating. They loose their night sleep.


I do not really do that. I do not keep hives ALIVE with electrict heating I keep them with sugar as all do.

But I can tell you that I can get with patty feeding and heating 3 fold build up in BIG hives.

I start to heat hives in spring, when they start to get water from ground 3 weeks before willow blooming. Read BIG HIVES.

It happens to be so that all my hives are in cottage in winter and electricity ias 10 metres away from nearest hives.

You want to understad the whole story wrong. I am not going to help you.

The secret of expanding brooding comes from volume of ball.
When the colony has 10 cm radius of brood and with he help of heat it expands to 15 cm, what is the difference?

It is 3,4 fold.

-

 

[user 6228]

Not helpful - the first one costs $39.95 and the second is $32.

you can find the second one free somewhere on the net