Help with newly housed swarm & feeding

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

nickhodge

New Bee
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
45
Reaction score
0
Location
Southampton
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
3
All

I am a new beekeeper although have attended a training course and had 12 months of research before today.

I received a swarm from a fellow local club member on 30th April 2012 and these are in a National brood box with 11 frames with new foundation.

I opened the box the next day (about the only day with decent weather since, when they were flying) and placed an empty super on with a rapid feeder with 2L of 1:1 syrup. So the assembly is o/m floor, brood box, crown board, empty super, roof.

Since this time, with the weather cold and wet there have been no bees flying. A peep inside (through the ovals in the crown board) on Saturday showed them in a tight cluster around the centre frames (2-3). I left them until on Monday the sun came out, the temperature rose to nearly 16 degrees and the rain stopped.

My observations on removing a the roof was that despite flying bees none were using the feeder??? I continued a very quick inspection and as I dragged frames apart to lift, it was almost like bees were tied together across the frames. There was very little comb building activity and no queen was seen

I guess my questions are:

1) Does the above seem normal?
2) Why would they not be feeding?
3) Does syrup go off on the hive and despite not being used should I change it?

Hope to get some responses for this novice
 
Hi Nick

That's the key - it's cold. They have probably been ticking over on the syrup that you have given them but can't be motivated by enough warmth to start any serious comb building. They have probably started some off within that cluster that you can see. Bees need to be stimulated into wax production by sufficient warmth and enough energy. The current conditions have meant deficiency in both. It has warmed up (here) today so you should expect some activity if you're in a similar situation.

If the bees seem healthy enough I wouldn't worry. If they haven't started to furnish their new home before long, I would be surprised. By the way, you could consider some insulation on top of the CB (around the feeder) if it's a protracted cold spell.
 
try trickling some syrup through the central hole in the feeder, 'cos it has no scent, they need encouragement to find the syrup (sometimes)
 
Moggs

Thanks for the re-assurance. I take it I do not need to replace the syrup?

What form would the insulation take?

Here's hoping for a spell of settled, warm weather
 
Tony

Thanks for your reply. During my inspection yesterday I actually did that. Just a few flicks of the finger down the centre hole so it would just dribble down the frames in the hope they would follow the sugary road.

Didn't want to get too crazy as to attract wasps and the like though, although the entrance is reduced dramatically with straw (I know, I was away when the swarm was deposited and had not got around to making an entrance reducer!)
 
Kingspan 2" polystyrene wall/ roof insulation board is well-favoured around these parts but anything that would hold some heat and take up the air space would be fine (within reason)! Your syrup will be OK - 1:1 will go off after a while but we haven't had the temperatures that would encourage fermentation.
 
Moggs

Brilliant, know the stuff. Will get that cut tonight with my spare stuff and get on in a day or two.

Thank you so much
 
a tight cluster around the centre frames (2-3).

Not a big swarm, then? They could even be just a cast. Really don't need a full box to heat with this cold weather. I would suggest you move the frames they are on (plus another) to one end and dummy the rest of the hive from them, preferably with insulation behind the dummy (I use a divider rather than a dummy).

I hope the oval in the crown board has been covered all along, or it may not be so surprising that they have not done a lot.

I would say nothing (or at least very little) is 'normal' this year!

RAB
 
Oliver

Perhaps misworded there. I only looked at the cluster through the crown board. Not wishing to disturb them. it was when i did the inspection on Monday that they covered most of 2-3 frames (both sides). Not sure at this stage what constitutes a swarm or cast (size wise)

I did leave the second crown board hole open which now I think about it, both for heat and directing them to feed makes no sense at all as they could go up through that one and not be able to access feed at all! (Amazing how stuff seems stupid when it's pointed out)

I will cover that and install some insulation this evening as this can be done without disturbing them too much

Thanks
 
When you next feel like spending a little bit on your new hobby - a polycarbonate (transparent) crown board would be a useful purchase - lets you have a quick peek without opening the colony and, IIRC, has better thermal (insulation) properties than a bit of plywood.
 
Nick, it doesn't sound like a big swarm. A cast, in my vocab, is a secondary (after-)swarm, led by a virgin queen. A swarm would be led by the old (established, mated, laying) queen from the original colony. (Many swarm queens are actually, hmmm, marked ....!)

They need to be warm to draw comb. A small colony doesn't generate much heat - hence the advice to restrict them to only half or a third of the box with a dummy frame or a divider board. Fill the void space beyond with insulation. Put in the inspection board to close the open floor. Reduce the entrance (maybe you have improved on the straw!)
And top insulate. Even an old blanket or newspaper over the feeder and crownboard will make it warmer for them.
The warmer the hive, the easier for them to draw out some comb.
But putting them into a polystyrene foam nucleus ("nuc") hive would be the preferred option. Small and well insulated - designed as a 'starter home' for a developing colony!

1:1 will start going mouldy in a few days. OK until then. Don't think your mini-colony will take much. 2 l would be a lot for them.
You could even do it by the jamjar. Refill/replace daily. I doubt they'd get through more than that as they are. Little and often is easy to make up and there's little wasted through spoilage.
A few nail holes through a jamjar lid, fill with syrup and invert over the crownboard hole. DIY mini contact feeder. If it just bubbles and drains away, you've made too many, too big holes! Test it over a bowl. T's (and others) sell a neat gizmo with gauze that acts a contact feeder lid for a standard honey jar (which you are expected to have lots of, empty and clean). The gauze feeder lid is well worth a couple of quid IMHO.

Wax-making. Its done by bees mysteriously forming themselves into chains or beards -- that may have been what you saw.

Good luck!

/ And if you have a virgin queen, she'll need good weather for a mating flight, and it could be a fortnight or so before she starts laying.
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone indeed. Great advice.

I have cut the Kingspan insulation to fit which doubles as insulation and a cover for the additional open hole in the crown board.

I have taken the roof off tonight to place it and the good news is the feeder is full of bees! That I guess bears out it was just too cold (16 degrees here today)

All the same, I have fitted the insulation and replaced the feeder and bees in it, rescuing one that flew into the soup with a leaf!

I have made an entrance reducer which leaves about a 40mm entrance of half height (12mm), with the entrance centered. I have fitted that and the straw is no more. They truly are great creatures, flying bees alighting on the right side where the entrance was. It takes them quite a while to work it out too.

Another thing I noted today is the hive was MUCH noisier. That too I took to be a good thing? Busy, busy, busy...

Again, thanks for all the help. Sure I'll be back soon
 
Just a quick update...

Looked before I went to work. It was raining and just about 10 degrees. Only a couple of bees flying but the hive was again literally buzzing. With the kingspan on the crown board and around feeder it is fine to lift the lid as there will be no bees there.

Feeder full of feeding bees and probably 1/2" lower in level. Feel much more confident stuff is happening now. Thanks again to those responding
 
Once the get the idea that feed is there, they will take quite a bit as they produce wax; several litres is not uncommon for a good sized stock. If it's a mature queen she should be laying in just a few days (definitely within a week). A virgin needs warm weather to mate; a few days later if the mating is good, she'll start to lay.
Don't inspect during mating time; Sunny/warm day from 10 AM to 4 PM as this could confuse the queen and she doesn't get back to the hive.

Exciting isn't it!
 
as per many discussions on here crownboards should be solid with no upper "ventilation". you only need feeders/clearers for brief periods so better to have a nice solid sheet for rest of the time (get better contact with the winter insulation too).
 
I have a glass C/B it has a clearer/feeder hole in the centre and a canvas blanket. in the evenings i can fold back the canvas and see what they are up to without removing the C/B. As a newbee this reassures me they are still there and all is well, i can also check for varoa with a torch.
 
polycarbonate CBs are great - just don't make feeder/clearer holes in it.

Our acrylic (polycarbonate) crown boards have circular central feeder holes that we can easily close with an acrylic offcut. It means there might be a tiny air gap between the edge of the offcut and a block of insulation, but it's minimal, and anyway, a thin layer of static air also acts as insulation.

Taking off a solid crown board to replace it with a dedicated 'feeder board' would cause far more heat loss than sliding the offcut to one side and quickly covering it with either a feeder or a tub of fondant.
 
"Taking off a solid crown board to replace it with a dedicated 'feeder board' would cause far more heat loss than sliding the offcut to one side and quickly covering it with either a feeder or a tub of fondant."

if fondant needed in winter they'll need a proper block - hence shallow eke and CB back on rather than feeding from above CB.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top