Help - I’ve just messed up with my queen clipping

[tchu]

New to this business of clipping and happy with the success I’ve had with my previous clipping, I accidentally clipped both sides of my queen’s wings. Believing (maybe wrongly) that to achieve the end result of wining a couple of days in the swarm prevention process, one pair of wings must be shorter than the pair on the other side, I then clipped one of the sides even shorter! Inevitable not to keep beating myself up, even more so when a friend told me that clipping one of the sides even shorter was unnecessary, that I shouldn’t have clipped anyway because she only just started to lay so the bees weren’t going to think of swarming or replacing her this year, and this year has been a nightmare to rear queen & get them mated properly so I’ve just lost the opportunity of having a newly mated queen, etc etc, and that the bees will now reject her! I’m sure his right as all the things he said now make sense, but I’d still like to hear what you guys think/experience and if you did lose your queen for having clipped her wing really short.
As for me, I’m probably done with wing clipping

 

[pargyle]

I can sell you a clip on pair of artificial bee wings ... individually made - cheap as chips at a fiver plus postage ...

Seriously ? Nowt you can do ...

I rather think it will make little difference ... if she continues to lay they won't worry that you've messed up her wings ...

Wing clipping only buys you a couple of days so I don't bother .. clipped queens that try to swarm usually end up in the grass in front of the hive and you stand to risk losing her anyway unless she can crawl back ... unless you are on top of your swarm inspection regime it's a waste of time (My opinion but there are lots who will disagree !).

 

[tchu]

I can sell you a clip on pair of artificial bee wings ... individually made - cheap as chips at a fiver plus postage ...

Seriously ? Nowt you can do ...

I rather think it will make little difference ... if she continues to lay they won't worry that you've messed up her wings ...

Wing clipping only buys you a couple of days so I don't bother .. clipped queens that try to swarm usually end up in the grass in front of the hive and you stand to risk losing her anyway unless she can crawl back ... unless you are on top of your swarm inspection regime it's a waste of time (My opinion but there are lots who will disagree !).

You gave me some hope now as my friend seemed adamant that they will completely reject her. Can’t wait for my next inspection next week

 

[Erichalfbee]

You gave me some hope now as my friend seemed adamant that they will completely reject her. Can’t wait for my next inspection next week

I agree with Phillip. She might well be ok

 

[tchu]

Hope you’re right - been trying to get a mated queen in that colony since April and the weather really messed with their mating and the virgins either became drone layers or workers became drone layers. And when a virgin finally has success with mating then I make a mistake with the clipping. Living and hopefully learning

 

[pargyle]

Hope you’re right - been trying to get a mated queen in that colony since April and the weather really messed with their mating and the virgins either became drone layers or workers became drone layers. And when a virgin finally has success with mating then I make a mistake with the clipping. Living and hopefully learning

If you never make a mistake when you keep bees then you should start a religion as you can clearly walk on water! Nothing to beat yourself up about ... we've all done worse than this ... although coming to the confessional is not always easy!!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Clipping both the queen's wings is no big deal - it doesn't matter whether they're clipped the same length or not (just for future reference ) as for your friend - I'm unsure exactly where she's coming from to be honest.

 

[rolande]

Hope you’re right - been trying to get a mated queen in that colony since April

I don't quite understand this bit. Sounds like you've done amazing well to have a colony at all if it's been Queenless since April.

As for clipping, like the others I reckon she'll be fine.

 

[jeff33]

I have a tub of glue you can have if you want, it will save me sniffing it. Seriously though, it's not an issue.

 

[tchu]

Clipping both the queen's wings is no big deal - it doesn't matter whether they're clipped the same length or not (just for future reference ) as for your friend - I'm unsure exactly where she's coming from to be honest.

Thanks -soon after I realised my mistake I remembered that I had possibly read/heard something about one of the sides having to be shorter than the other to interfere with the queen’s flight balance otherwise they’d be able to fly anyway but now it looks like I got it wrong. As for the friend, he’s been successfully keeping bees & rearing queens commercially for 17 years so when he made that comment it really got me even more concerned as this is only my second year keeping bees and my first year doing it on my own

 

[Newbeeneil]

I've had queens with both wings clipped...
No problem.
I've even taken off a leg while taking a wing off..... that queen went on for another 2 years before they superseded her.

 

[WoodenBeam]

Maybe your friend was advising to let queens settle prior to clipping, wait for some brood to be formed & not just eggs. Don’t let this experience put you off clipping, a very good management tool and although you will still lose the odd queen (always the one you don’t want to!) you won’t lose the workforce (as long as the swarming urge is managed).
We don’t know where you are but weekly inspections around here are questionable though at this time of year - the bees are getting ready for bed and don’t necessarily need to be disturbed without a good reason.

 

[tchu]

I've had queens with both wings clipped...
No problem.
I've even taken off a leg while taking a wing off..... that queen went on for another 2 years before they superseded her.

Thanks for sharing; that’s very comforting to know

 

[tchu]

Maybe your friend was advising to let queens settle prior to clipping, wait for some brood to be formed & not just eggs. Don’t let this experience put you off clipping, a very good management tool and although you will still lose the odd queen (always the one you don’t want to!) you won’t lose the workforce (as long as the swarming urge is managed).
We don’t know where you are but weekly inspections around here are questionable though at this time of year - the bees are getting ready for bed and don’t necessarily need to be disturbed without a good reason.

I’m in Hertfordshire; would weekly inspections be too many?

 

[tchu]

I don't quite understand this bit. Sounds like you've done amazing well to have a colony at all if it's been Queenless since April.

As for clipping, like the others I reckon she'll be fine.

Thank you, Rolande. Not going to lie: it has been a weekly battle, trying to learn as much as I could as wasn’t taught queen rearing/drone laying management at my local BKA so ended up becoming associate member of other BKAs, BIBBA, watched many talks & webinars, added brood from other colonies, grafted, did some other tricks that worked with others, and finally on Friday there was a laying queen laying one egg per cell! No capped brood yet so she could still be a drone layer - to be continued..

 

[WoodenBeam]

I’m in Hertfordshire; would weekly inspections be too many?

Only go in when there’s something that needs doing - checking for your queen would warrant a visit
Around here it’s pre close down visits for me - assess colony for health/strength, if all as expected/wanted this could be the last in depth brood box inspection. Honey comes off, varroa treatment, feed, without wishing to start a debate - top & tail , there after hefting and making plans for next year.
Spanner’s in the works could be queens just back so wanting to see laying patterns, brood boxes light on stores, maybe some old poor quality outside frames to replace with drawn combs of stores. Uniting anything that isn’t viable for taking into Winter would be another reason for continued visits…………..
As for general queen/egg/brood/swarm preparation spotting - no, those type of visits are no longer needed (for me in my opinion).

 

[WoodenBeam]

Thank you, Rolande. Not going to lie: it has been a weekly battle, trying to learn as much as I could as wasn’t taught queen rearing/drone laying management at my local BKA so ended up becoming associate member of other BKAs, BIBBA, watched many talks & webinars, added brood from other colonies, grafted, did some other tricks that worked with others, and finally on Friday there was a laying queen laying one egg per cell! No capped brood yet so she could still be a drone layer - to be continued..

If your queen is okay & lays well you’ll need to ensure the colony is strong for going into winter - if there’s nothing coming in around you I’d be trickling feed in, a balance between giving enough stores to encourage brood to be laid up but not filling all the cells with syrup.
In the back of my mind I’m thinking Hertfordshire and Himalayan balsam - if this is the case feeding may not be needed

 

[user 20297]

Thanks for sharing; that’s very comforting to know

...not for the queen bee.

 

[tchu]

If your queen is okay & lays well you’ll need to ensure the colony is strong for going into winter - if there’s nothing coming in around you I’d be trickling feed in, a balance between giving enough stores to encourage brood to be laid up but not filling all the cells with syrup.
In the back of my mind I’m thinking Hertfordshire and Himalayan balsam - if this is the case feeding may not be needed

Thanks. With all that happen with that colony this year, it lost many bees and it’s now in a 14x12 nuc and last week the queen had laid in 2 frames, there’s one of stores half way down, one has foundation in one side and capped brood from another colony on the other. 2 frames of foundation. Entrance is down to 1 bee espace. So very small colony, will need to be united for winter for sure. I have another very small one made up in a nuc 2 weeks ago just to make some use of of her to give a brood boost to other colonies - she’s a mated queen that doesn’t always lay singly - but still mated and laying fertilised eggs - that a friend was giving away so thinking of uniting those 2 up if my short winged queen isn’t a drone layer. 2 weeks ago when the wing damaged queen nuc was open for a very brief short period I had lots of wasps and robbers coming, to the point that I had to closed the entrance completely and only open again in the following morning as the robbers/wasps kept trying to go into the then 3 bee space entrance on and on and on. I then fed it and then fed again last week. So I’m guessing we’re in a nectar dearth in Hertfordshire at the moment

 

[rolande]

Thank you, Rolande. Not going to lie: it has been a weekly battle, trying to learn as much as I could as wasn’t taught queen rearing/drone laying management at my local BKA so ended up becoming associate member of other BKAs, BIBBA, watched many talks & webinars, added brood from other colonies, grafted, did some other tricks that worked with others, and finally on Friday there was a laying queen laying one egg per cell! No capped brood yet so she could still be a drone layer - to be continued..

Then you really have pulled something off.