Has the bubble burst?

[Shabro]

If I made stuff it would weigh a ton and be over engineered in my typical fashion

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[BeeJayBee]

Beekeepers in the UK are exploited by the equipment suppliers, it's a big profitable business.

However, one only has to read through the big suppliers catalogues to see the level of greedy pricing and dodgy delivery charges evident because of the "near" monopoly of supply that persists!

I think some of them are greedy, to be honest. Some of them are importing cheaply from China and charging the same as they charged for branded items. There are suppliers out there who are much more realistic. A stainless hive tool, with the vendors name painted on it costs £10 - plus postage, and the painted name wears off within a season. The same hive tool from a smaller supplier with no shop outlet, and without a name painted on it, costs £6.99 - free postage.

Far be it for me to defend commercial organisations. However you do have to bear in mind what they are. Even the French and other continental suppliers can supply cheap because they're retailing international pattern hives made in Eastern Europe.

Yes, if people are buying National-sized boxes and frames then they are made almost exclusively for the UK market, but a lot of the other stuff isn't. I cannot understand how a boiler suit with an extra zip and an attached hat can cost over £100.

Nobody is forcing you to buy here, there are plenty of suppliers who will ship worldwide. If the bee supply companies are paying UK wages, UK taxes, UK business rates and complying with all the red tape then I don't begrudge them a fair price.

Individuals can't import small quantities cheaply, we can see the low prices but can't actually access them so yes, we are forced to buy here and they know it.

 

[VEG]

Companies have to make a profit. Lots of overheads to cover I have no problem with what they charge. I just buy in their sales.

 

[Tdod]

As Hobbies go It is expensive for a beginner you need quite a lot of items before the outlay for bees. I have been building up equipment for over a year now trying to spread the costs and I am fortunate i can make a lot of stuff to keep costs down.
Perhaps this initial outlay puts off the beginnner???

 

[Gilberdyke John]

As Hobbies go It is expensive for a beginner you need quite a lot of items before the outlay for bees. I have been building up equipment for over a year now trying to spread the costs and I am fortunate i can make a lot of stuff to keep costs down.
Perhaps this initial outlay puts off the beginnner???

Someone sold a whole setup less bees on ebay for about £140 last week. Story was family sting reactions if I recall correctly. Seemed reasonable enough cost but I didn't need it or I would have been in the bidding.

 

[Walrus]

The biggest investment by far, IMO, is time. Attending courses, reading, BKA events, finding an apiary site, not to mention the actual beekeeping. For me this is fun and a good use of my time. Compared to a few quid the time investment is huge.

For a hobby beek like me although my time is precious there is enough to mess about with bees, but as the number of hives grows so does the need to be more efficient. There must come a point where systemising/standardising (basically turning it into a business) is needed to be able to get everything done in the time available.

I must admit that my DIY skills improved when I took up beekeeping, but if the truth be known, for many bits of kit I'm better off buying something well made than spending hours producing something that took ages & isn't as good. But if I had no money and lots of time I would have a go at making pretty well everything.

So there is room for all in this crazy hobby/trade/way of life


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[Brosville]

I've had a quiet chuckle at people grizzling about "expense" - I got to 3 colonies and hives, and all the equipment I needed for a total outlay of under £150 - I made my own (top bar) hives from the free plans available on the net, and populated them from local swarms. My woodworking skills are pretty non-existent, so if I can manage to make hives, so can most people (just follow the step by step plans, it's a doddle!).
Being one of those much-maligned (more) natural beekeepers, ongoing expenses are also minimal, (no sugar, no chemicals, no foundation), about the only thing I buy in is some linseed oil to paint the hives with (with some beeswax melted into it, applied hot)

 

[victor meldrew]

My woodworking skills are pretty non-existent, :

Rather akin to your debating skills I fancy
VM




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[Dishmop]

I think the economic climate is playing a part as well,

People are buying what they need and not what they would like.

 

[For want of a better word]

Rather akin to your debating skills I fancy
VM




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Kick his balls young man.... no no no ... not the dogs ... the ones on the lawn!

Shouted the rather posh lady customer as one of her Rottweilers dragged my somewhat bedraggled apprentice to the ground whilst attempting to make love to his leg!

 

[Skyhook]

Rather akin to your debating skills I fancy
VM

Play nice, children- go for the message, not the medium.

.

 

[psafloyd]

I've had a quiet chuckle at people grizzling about "expense" - I got to 3 colonies and hives, and all the equipment I needed for a total outlay of under £150 - I made my own (top bar) hives from the free plans available on the net, and populated them from local swarms. My woodworking skills are pretty non-existent, so if I can manage to make hives, so can most people (just follow the step by step plans, it's a doddle!).
Being one of those much-maligned (more) natural beekeepers, ongoing expenses are also minimal, (no sugar, no chemicals, no foundation), about the only thing I buy in is some linseed oil to paint the hives with (with some beeswax melted into it, applied hot)

Brosville's way is definitely more cost effective and had I been exposed to it earlier, I might have pursued it. I certainly like the Warré hive and think it more robust than a TBH, but BLOODY HEAVY.

However, if I had a workshop to do the work, I would try to build a TBH, but I simply don't have the space to be able to make anything more involved than an eke.

 

[DontWorryBeeHappy]

Less beekeepers or just less assocaition members?

Are people stopping beekeeping or are they just not renewing their association membership. I find our local association to be a bit of a clique and also the meetings are boring. I will carry on beekeeping but I will be going it alone this year. Maybe others are doing the same?

 

[derekm]

Brosville's way is definitely more cost effective and had I been exposed to it earlier, I might have pursued it. I certainly like the Warré hive and think it more robust than a TBH, but BLOODY HEAVY.

However, if I had a workshop to do the work, I would try to build a TBH, but I simply don't have the space to be able to make anything more involved than an eke.

Be aware that because of the large top surface area TBH can lose more heat... To get to the same amount of heat loss as a national you need more insulation. To get the same amount of heat loss as a tree nest think 75mm of kingspan or 100mm of polystyrene on the roof and sides.

 

[Little John]

I certainly like the Warré hive and think it more robust than a TBH, but BLOODY HEAVY.

Only if you try to lift all the boxes together ! Some people have even made various lifting devices - again, in order to lift all the boxes in one go - but you don't have to.

The other (back-friendly) way, is to move boxes one at a time. Ok, so it disturbs the colony a little - but it's not as if you're pulling combs in and out - so they recover fairly quickly afterwards.

LJ

 

[mbc]

Only if you try to lift all the boxes together ! Some people have even made various lifting devices - again, in order to lift all the boxes in one go - but you don't have to.

The other (back-friendly) way, is to move boxes one at a time. Ok, so it disturbs the colony a little - but it's not as if you're pulling combs in and out - so they recover fairly quickly afterwards.

LJ

I think you may be saying separating boxes of a Warre is less disruptive than taking out frames in a conventional hive, if so, you're way off !
By their very bee friendly nature of being tall and narrow, a Warre has brood going through several boxes for most of the active season, and the design of top bar and vertical sides almost guaranties the comb is attached to the top bars below needing quite a bit of cutting to separate, whereas a conventional framed hive usually follows the bee space (specified by Langstroth a long time ago) making it easy to take frames out for inspection with no cutting involved at all , and they can also be replaced in the same place with minimal risk of squishing bees unlike replacing separated Warre boxes with all that touching comb.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Being one of those much-maligned (more) natural beekeepers, ongoing expenses are also minimal, (no sugar, no chemicals, no foundation), about the only thing I buy in is some linseed oil to paint the hives with

And when the varoa and DWV finally do for the colony, you have a nice rustic wooden trough to plant your pollinator friendly flowers in

 

[victor meldrew]

And when the varoa and DWV finally do for the colony, you have a nice rustic wooden trough to plant your pollinator friendly flowers in

A little lemon grass and he'll pick a swarm aka the so called feral colonies of 10 plus years standing .
Oh! Yeah!
VM


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[PBee]

.........aka the so called feral colonies of 10 plus years standing .
Oh! Yeah!
VM


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Feral colonies of ten years plus standing ......

Remarkably, a few subpopulations in Europe have survived mite infestation for extended periods of over 10 years without management by beekeepers and offer the possibility to study their natural host–parasite coevolution.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402190/

 

[theengraver]

Are people stopping beekeeping or are they just not renewing their association membership. I find our local association to be a bit of a clique and also the meetings are boring. I will carry on beekeeping but I will be going it alone this year. Maybe others are doing the same?

I have visited a lot of local BKAs this winter and i have to agree out of 12 local BKAs if i was a member i would not go back except to one!
They are on the whole very boring stuck in the 1930s and run like the old working mens clubs of the 70s
They should be fun to attend but there not new members are left on the edges and ignored.
I stood and talked to a lot of new attendees and most of them said they would not be returning and who can blame them