Has anyone used this?

[Into the lions den]

Why spend over £25 on something that's likely snake oil, and with no information or proof of efficacy, when you can spend the same amount on a pan vaporiser from Ebay? The gear to vape your bees (vaporiser, battery and PPE) doesn't cost a fortune and will last you for many many years to come. Other than buying the OA itself you won't need to spend any more money and will have the ability to treat whenever you want and in a way that's known to be effective.

Sadly..that it has been effective for years and widely used without any serious consequences does NOT get away from the rules imposed by the VMD.
The use of generic OA is now illegal and enforceable against (never WAS specifically legal)....immediately a formulation was registered your freedom to use OA was taken away.

That most still do so does not make it legal, but fortunately I am not aware of any moves yet to enforce...but have heard of certain individuals who were involved in getting a particular OA product registered were pressing for enforcement.

Whilst generally favourably disposed towards bee inspectors, the fact they have the information gathering role for matters that can be enforced as part of the remit (perhaps not all the time) does make them people to be careful about when describing your methods...you never know when they might start going after OA users..and for sure you will not get a warning. Thus...be careful about your social media output.

Have encountered this conflict of roles a couple of times........would greatly prefer them to be our allies and for the most part they are....but they also investigate and not always overtly. Makes them potentially the enemy if you are treating with economic versions of treatments that have a licensed brand available....and as I discovered...no matter how severe the cost difference is....UK rules *specifically exclude* cost as an argument.

 

[mbc]

Sadly..that it has been effective for years and widely used without any serious consequences does NOT get away from the rules imposed by the VMD.
The use of generic OA is now illegal and enforceable against (never WAS specifically legal)....immediately a formulation was registered your freedom to use OA was taken away.

That most still do so does not make it legal, but fortunately I am not aware of any moves yet to enforce...but have heard of certain individuals who were involved in getting a particular OA product registered were pressing for enforcement.

Whilst generally favourably disposed towards bee inspectors, the fact they have the information gathering role for matters that can be enforced as part of the remit (perhaps not all the time) does make them people to be careful about when describing your methods...you never know when they might start going after OA users..and for sure you will not get a warning. Thus...be careful about your social media output.

Have encountered this conflict of roles a couple of times........would greatly prefer them to be our allies and for the most part they are....but they also investigate and not always overtly. Makes them potentially the enemy if you are treating with economic versions of treatments that have a licensed brand available....and as I discovered...no matter how severe the cost difference is....UK rules *specifically exclude* cost as an argument.

You'd have to be a prick of a bee inspector to relish this role policing the vmd bulshit, I know many were quite resentful this was foisted on them along with the honey sampling, as you say, a direct conflict to their role as trusted compadres in the effort to keep the nations bees healthy.

 

[drdrday]

The use of generic OA is now illegal and enforceable against (never WAS specifically legal)....immediately a formulation was registered your freedom to use OA was taken away.

I never said to use generic OA. It's perfectly legal to vape OA as long as you use Api-bioxal.
Of course it's up to each individual where they choose to source the OA they use for vaping (and accept the risks that come with it).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You'd have to be a prick of a bee inspector to relish this role policing the vmd bulshit, I know many were quite resentful this was foisted on them along with the honey sampling, as you say, a direct conflict to their role as trusted compadres in the effort to keep the nations bees healthy.

Yes, been through it all with my last job, nowadays a lot of our work is intelligence gathering and the best way was to keep well in with the leisure boating fraternity and harbour workers as they had their fingers on the pulse and would pass on to us, it worked well, and meant the occasionally warming cup of tea (or even nobbler) when boarding in cold Autumn weather in places like the sound of mull but then our new boss was obsessed with figures and targets and we had no choice but to hit the easy stuff in places like the Solent and other weekend pinch points just so we could collect ticks and leave us the rest of the week to catch smugglers. The yachting fraternity soon got fed up with being constantly boarded by a succession of crews struggling to boost their figures. Bang went our goodwill overnight, horrible articles in the yachting magazines, then to top it all we had an edict to use any downtime to try and detect red diesel users!! and once some eejit had dipped the harbourmaster's landrover, instead of getting cozy clean berths right next to the local hostelries we ended up with scrappy old berths tucked away amongst the trawlers and rotting fishing nets!!.......................and the intel dried up completely

 

[mbc]

Yes, been through it all with my last job, nowadays a lot of our work is intelligence gathering and the best way was to keep well in with the leisure boating fraternity and harbour workers as they had their fingers on the pulse and would pass on to us, it worked well, and meant the occasionally warming cup of tea (or even nobbler) when boarding in cold Autumn weather in places like the sound of mull but then our new boss was obsessed with figures and targets and we had no choice but to hit the easy stuff in places like the Solent and other weekend pinch points just so we could collect ticks and leave us the rest of the week to catch smugglers. The yachting fraternity soon got fed up with being constantly boarded by a succession of crews struggling to boost their figures. Bang went our goodwill overnight, horrible articles in the yachting magazines, then to top it all we had an edict to use any downtime to try and detect red diesel users!! and once some eejit had dipped the harbourmaster's landrover, instead of getting cozy clean berths right next to the local hostelries we ended up with scrappy old berths tucked away amongst the trawlers and rotting fishing nets!!.......................and the intel dried up completely

With regards to collecting data this puts an obvious skew on the numbers of beekeepers claiming to be treatment free.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

With regards to collecting data this puts an obvious skew on the numbers of beekeepers claiming to be treatment free.

yup

 

[Moobee]

Why spend over £25 on something that's likely snake oil, and with no information or proof of efficacy, when you can spend the same amount on a pan vaporiser from Ebay? The gear to vape your bees (vaporiser, battery and PPE) doesn't cost a fortune and will last you for many many years to come. Other than buying the OA itself you won't need to spend any more money and will have the ability to treat whenever you want and in a way that's known to be effective.

Edit: Sorry Moobees, just repeated what you'd already said

no worries! better twice than not at all....

 

[Moobee]

As an aside Mobus used to mention that Rennie I think it was opened colonies right through the Winter to check brooding so the brood was inspected in cold temperatures. Seemingly no colonies were lost to the inspection regime. Just saying.

PH

I added a polycarb crown board last year so I could take a quick peek before adding extra fondant if needed. Found they were happy as Larry - guess it helps keep the heat in.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

no worries! better twice than not at all....

You can say that again

 

[Erichalfbee]

It's perfectly legal to vape OA as long as you use Api-bioxal.

But then only once

 

[Wilco]

@Into the lions den I agree the VMR regarding licencing are a joke and only really benefit pharmaceutical companies and the VMD. Fair enough if someone's developed a new drug and gets a licence that protects their work in developing it but all too often companies exploit it to licence historically generic/unlicenced but widely used medicines just to make a quick buck.

I'm currently trying to get a response from the VMD on where the Cascade sits WRT beekeeping but I'd be very surprised if it went in its entirety as the whole veterinary profession would make their views abundantly clear very rapidly.

 

[bobba]

Off the top of my head Api-bioxal is 99% (ish) OA, then there is a little bit of something else!

If the relevant data was submitted to the regulators, I see no reason why pure (off the shelf) OA could not be regulated for use as we wish. The problem is the cost to run the studies to produce the data. Then there is no profit, as its an off the shelf easily available product. So no one will do it

Regarding the law, I see 100s of videos on YouTube for various home made pesticides. Everything from garlic, washing up liquid, neem oil etc. Well that's technically all naughty.

"only pesticides approved by Ministers shall be sold, supplied, used"

 

[Murox]

Off the top of my head Api-bioxal is 99% (ish) OA, then there is a little bit of something else!
"only pesticides approved by Ministers shall be sold, supplied, used"

Shouldn't that read "only pesticides passed by Ministers shall be sold, supplied, used"

 

[bobba]

Shouldn't that read "only pesticides passed by Ministers shall be sold, supplied, used"

I pulled that quote from a .gov page.

But on closer inspection I think it should read:

"only pesticides approved by the appropriate Regulatory body's shall be sold, supplied, used"

Maybe the regulators are overseen by a minister, so maybe the buck stops with them. so it might be technically correct, but I agree, something about it just sounds wrong.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I pulled that quote from a .gov page.



"only pesticides approved by the appropriate Regulatory body's shall be sold, supplied, used"

"only pesticides approved by the appropriate Regulatory body shall be sold, supplied, used"
"only pesticides approved by the appropriate Regulatory bodies shall be sold, supplied, used"

 

[Bryang]

Shouldn't that read "only pesticides passed by Ministers shall be sold, supplied, used"

The only thing that Ministers pass that is any good as a pesticide is their urine. I use mine to keep the mice away from my stored spuds

 

[Murox]

I pulled that quote from a .gov page.

But on closer inspection I think it should read:

"only pesticides approved by the appropriate Regulatory body's shall be sold, supplied, used"

Maybe the regulators are overseen by a minister, so maybe the buck stops with them. so it might be technically correct, but I agree, something about it just sounds wrong.

I was extracting the P

 

[bobba]

I was extracting the P

I get it now...... and I read it as a serious comment haha