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Going to add a second brood box tomorrow

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CliffDale 

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Hi all

My bees are bursting in the brood box, 9 frames full. It is a national hive and have brood box only at the moment. I removed the supers about 3 weeks ago.

I am going to add a second brood box with foundation to give them room.

Do I add it above or below the current box?

Also, should I move some frames so both boxes has drawn frames surrounded with foundation?

Cliff
 

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It is a mistake if you put the bees draw foundations when they need to prepare for winter.
Extract the super and put the combs back.
 

jezd 

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I wouldn't as the bee number are dropping rapidly now, if you add it below they wont touch it is my guess and if you add it above you are asking then to draw out a ton of new frames. They are in a national and you have them on 9 frames but thats not bursting. I would leave them in 1 box, remove the 2 outer frames and if they are so strong give them 2 new frames of foundation to draw out in the brood area (not next to each other).

This is assuming they are so strong, they will most likely use the new foundation for brood but not always.
 

Poly Hive 

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This is NOT a good idea. Bees are as said rapidly dying off. It may look full now but very soon it won't.

PH
 

MuswellMetro 

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ok, you say it is crowded but have you finished your varroa control, as apiguard or thymol crystals can knock back the queen laying quite a bit for the four weeks it is on and number of bees declines quite fast

how many brood frames and how much store have you in the brood box


double brood at this late stage, i would say no, brood and a half with drawn comb well maybe, but!!!!
 

JamesB 

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My definition of bursting is that u lift up the cover and the bees pour out like fermented honey from a jar,
I agree with the others this time of year is not the time to be giving them loads more work as the population will be decreasing some what,
-
I would just add a super of empty spun racks on top if they are as you say bursting, if they dont use it u can alsways take the racks out in readiness for feeding them.
 

CliffDale 

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Thanks all!
Seems like everyone is of the same opinion!

Mentioned earlier, tomorrow is the final day for apiguard control. I thought I would give them some room over winter. Partly because of the earlier 'over wintering post' but also, I lost most of my bees to swarms. I assume due to lack of room.

Thinking ahead, when is the best time to go to double brood, end of March? Early April?

I dont want to loose my bees again!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cliff
 

MuswellMetro 

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My definition of bursting is that u lift up the cover and the bees pour out like fermented honey from a jar,
I agree with the others this time of year is not the time to be giving them loads more work as the population will be decreasing some what,
-
I would just add a super of empty spun racks on top if they are as you say bursting, if they dont use it u can alsways take the racks out in readiness for feeding them.
i think he needs to give better information, if you look at his older post, you see he has recently combined two hives

so we need a bit more information as to the history of this hive,, is it the hive he combined or another, if so when did he combine, how old was the queenless brood etc his hive could be full of grandma worker bees about to die or young brood just hatched We need a better timescale and what the stores and brood are like

is it drawn frames in the new brood box to beadded, he has a spare one full of drawn frames if he combined

to many ifs, not enough info
 

CliffDale 

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I have several hives. 2 have been united recently. One hive had a laying worker and i did the dump on the grass routine and then united with a nuc.

This worked well and I have a laying queen!

Another hive was broodless, no eggs for a month and this was united with another nuc. This was a success also!

So you can give me advice....

Another 2 hives were working well end of july / early August. 1 super full and capped. A second super added very end of July.

I had a 3 week holiday. On return, all honey gone! Bees hungry!

Cliff
 

MuswellMetro 

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Thanks all!
Seems like everyone is of the same opinion!

Mentioned earlier, tomorrow is the final day for apiguard control. I thought I would give them some room over winter. Partly because of the earlier 'over wintering post' but also, I lost most of my bees to swarms. I assume due to lack of room.

Thinking ahead, when is the best time to go to double brood, end of March? Early April?

I dont want to loose my bees again!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cliff

in spring when they have AT LEAST 8 frames FULL of brood and stores, that can be 1st June ,1st May or 1st April, depends on spring forage, your queen and weather and dont expect any honey, but as isaid in previus post in earlier threads, i would go for brood and a half first or 14x12, to biuld them up
 
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oliver90owner 

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I had a 3 week holiday. On return, all honey gone! Bees hungry!

Sorry, but did you not put this on another thread?

I thought it had been already covered very well. You were asking if the bees would have starved if you had removed the supers before leaving for holiday. Answer was fairly obvious for that, provided they had used up all the stores and you had not had them stolen during your absence.

RAB
 

CliffDale 

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No!

One thread asking about starving bees!

This thread asking about swarm control!

And such a positive result, I will not be double brooding tomorrow. Thanks.
 

oliver90owner 

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Sorry, obviously losing the thread!!

quote from your post:

So you can give me advice....

Another 2 hives were working well end of july / early August. 1 super full and capped. A second super added very end of July.

I had a 3 week holiday. On return, all honey gone! Bees hungry!
 

CliffDale 

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Im not sure what you are saying here. I am a very new beek here. I need help and sound advice. My hives swarmed this year. All I want is improvement from you beeks. My solution, give them more space.

Thanks to the replies, and i take your advice not yet on double brood.

HAVE A GO AT ME IF YOU WISH and patronise my inexperience. We all start somewhere.

But others, Im new, first time in. 6 months experience and so thankful for your help.
 

Finman 

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Im not sure what you are saying here. I am a very new beek here. I need help and sound advice. My hives swarmed this year. All I want is improvement from you beeks. My solution, give them more space.

Thanks to the replies, and i take your advice not yet on double brood.

p.
i have nursed bees 47 years. Some has still 7 boxes but i am in a hurry to take extra off that they will have 1-2 boxes for winter.

When flowers are away, foragers will die in couple weeks. They fly and search food and they arenot able to return. Those bees which do not feed larvae, they will survive over winter.
 

Poly Hive 

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Cliffdale?

~As far as I can see no one is popping at you. They are trying to give you some good advice. However the point is also being made if I am reading this right that you had a similar issue of space before and some (again) good advice was given.

PH
 

MuswellMetro 

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i think what everyone is saying, is follow normal bee keeping practice

mastered your weekly swarm control inspection etc, before going off with new beekeeping methods

Double brood can still swarms, so just adding a nother brood box doesnt stop the instinct to swarm, infact by doubling the brood box area you can get brood spread out all over the place and reduced the queen pheromne that reaches the nurse bees ,AND because you only a few bees as opposed to a big brood you have now lots of honey stored around the brood as opposed in the supers

so stores and less pheromnes is the same as lots of stores and no space and they produce swarms cells:party: Fun beekeeping isn't it

One way of producing QC is to place a frame of brood eggs in a brood box above a QE with dummies frames either side.The lower brood box keeps them warm but the single frame doesn't get enough pheromnes so they produce QC

It is not just extra space
 

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