Getting rid of bad traits

[nessieb]

I'm a fairly new beekeeper (started in 2010). However my original queen and all of her daughters (3) have two traits which I dont like: following and swarminess, one of the daughters is also particularly fiesty and VERY followy.
How do I get rid of these traits? After getting to grips with this years bout of them trying to swarm I'm upto 8 colonies. I imagine that when the new queens have mated they'll be followy and swarmy too.
How do I get rid of these traits? Requeen? I cant see how I can breed these traits out when they're all related?
I'm going to join some of the colonies where possible to get down to a sensible 3 or 4 hives again.

 

[Frisbee]

Buy in good quality well bred bees. Plenty are easily available. Reduce your stock numbers. I did this in early spring by killing undesireable queens and shaking the bees in front of other hives. This meant I had stronger colonies earlier in the spring. I've bought Buckfasts these past two years. They are delightful to work, the bees stay on the comb and the two Buckfasts from last year haven't yet made a single attempt to swarm. I was in the same situation as you.....especially with the following.

Frisbee

 

[Tdf]

you could just buy a new queen and save the hassle of trying to breed it out of them

 

[mbc]

I'm a fairly new beekeeper (started in 2010). However my original queen and all of her daughters (3) have two traits which I dont like: following and swarminess, one of the daughters is also particularly fiesty and VERY followy.
How do I get rid of these traits? After getting to grips with this years bout of them trying to swarm I'm upto 8 colonies. I imagine that when the new queens have mated they'll be followy and swarmy too.
How do I get rid of these traits? Requeen? I cant see how I can breed these traits out when they're all related?
I'm going to join some of the colonies where possible to get down to a sensible 3 or 4 hives again.

If you can assess them well enough to discover which are least swarmy and followy and only keep these queens, strides of improvement can be made with most bees. I found significant improvements were only seen in my bees when I bit the bullet and rigorously culled those with traits I didnt like.
Of course its much quicker starting with something good in the first place but all lines will display a range of behaviour in their progeny and perhaps the hardest task in beekeeping is to effectively separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Finman]

Of course its much quicker starting with something good in the first place but all lines will display a range of behaviour in their progeny and perhaps the hardest task in beekeeping is to effectively separate the wheat from the chaff.

HUge. Bye new queens. Don't even try to breed your own strain......Furthermore DIY queen are really expencive because you loose the yield of rearing hive for couple of queens.

.

 

[susbees]

Parts of Wales have local bee improvement groups...some successfully co-operating locally to breed a climate-appropriate well-mannered bee.

It is pointless randomly buying a queen or two from another area...next year (probably) or the one after, local drones will mate with that queen's offspring leading to temperament and other issues although sometimes these won't appear for a further generation. Group co-operation not buying in is the way forward.

 

[nessieb]

Well I've a few virgins waiting to mate/about to lay plus 2 laying queens and I had some possible plans:
1. See which were most kind to work with and then eradicate and join them as neccessary (horrible isn't it!) to get back to 3-4 colonies ready for the July flow.
2. Plan 1 then requeen in autumn because even if bees dont follow they still might be swarmy.
3. Plan 1 then wait and see.

I know that the following is a bad trait in them because friends bees dont follow like mine do!
As for the swarminess perhaps its just me being a beginner making mistakes but I'm inclined to think its more than that.

How do I find out about queen improvement groups?
I've heard about Brother Adam and his Buckfast queens but are there still true Buckfast bees in the UK or do you mean the Buckfast imported Danish ones?
What happens then to the subsequent generations after mating with whatever local drone they happen to find? Back to square one?

 

[gavin]

It is pointless randomly buying a queen or two from another area...next year (probably) or the one after, local drones will mate with that queen's offspring leading to temperament and other issues although sometimes these won't appear for a further generation. Group co-operation not buying in is the way forward.

Hope I didn't go overboard there.

G.

 

[gavin]

1. See which were most kind to work with and then eradicate and join them as neccessary (horrible isn't it!) to get back to 3-4 colonies ready for the July flow.
2. Plan 1 then requeen in autumn because even if bees dont follow they still might be swarmy.
3. Plan 1 then wait and see.

Good idea, but in practice you will not be able to assess them for the July flow. It will take around 6 weeks (from last egg) before the new queen's workers dominate the guards. Also, small colonies (and ones with new queens) tend to be a lot milder anyway so you may struggle to spot the more difficult colonies yet.

What happens then to the subsequent generations after mating with whatever local drone they happen to find? Back to square one?

Sometimes they will mate more locally near your apiary, sometimes not. But in general you need numbers and continuing selection to succeed, hence the desireability of working with others locally. With time you will be able to spot the colonies/queens you don't like at an early stage.

Even just raising from your own selected queens you have control of >50% of the genetics. 50% on the queens side, and some of the drone input into the deal.