Frame wiring with fishing line

[Onge]

Hi all

Looking for some advice on wiring brood frames with fishing line i have tried the method recommended by the "Fatbeeman" on you-tube.

The results are very variable and was wondering if there is any type of cold embedding procedure I could do.

Any advice and examples on the subject would be great.

Thanks

 

[BKF Admin]

Not seen the video but for cold embedding you can purchase a Spur embedder(Thornes £7.50).

 

[Poly Hive]

Not being funny ONGE but why?

Do it cheap and regret it or do it right and have well supported combs that are fit for years.

Seems pretty clear to me.

PH

 

[Nopants]

Hi all

Looking for some advice on wiring brood frames with fishing line i have tried the method recommended by the "Fatbeeman" on you-tube.

The results are very variable and was wondering if there is any type of cold embedding procedure I could do.

Any advice and examples on the subject would be great.

Thanks

Nylon fishing wire gets brittle when it is exposed to heat and sunlight over time. So I dont think it will be as safe as wire as it could leave bits of debri in your honey

 

[marcros]

+ surely with a stainless wired frame, you can melt the old wax off using a steam cleaner and replace with new foundation. I cant imagine it working too well with fishing line.

I know that not many wire their frames- for those that do, how do you embed? i have a spur embedder, but is there an easier way?

 

[RoofTops]

The best way to embed the foundation on the wire is to heat the wire electrically and support the frame and foundation in a jig. You can buy purpose made transformers but a battery charger also works. Variable voltage is best as the wires can get very hot quickly, especially if the frames does not have many wires.

 

[marcros]

The best way to embed the foundation on the wire is to heat the wire electrically and support the frame and foundation in a jig. You can buy purpose made transformers but a battery charger also works. Variable voltage is best as the wires can get very hot quickly, especially if the frames does not have many wires.

Hi Rooftops,

Can you explain in simple terms how the battery charger works, or how it needs adapting etc. any pics would be helpful. (I know that it heats the wire, i am basiclly wanting instructions to make one!)

 

[RoofTops]

The method is to connect the leads from the transformer (or battery charger) to either end of the frame wire. It heats up very quickly so it is a mattter of trial and error. I find doing it in a few one second bursts is better than one continuous zap. I don't have any pictures but I'll see what I can do. The tricky bit is making the jig. I'm hoping to go into production as at the moment they can't be bought from any of the major suppliers.

 

[marcros]

Make me a Dadant jig and i will buy one from you.

Are we talking a car battery charger here?

 

[RoofTops]

Yes, sorry if I was being confusing. A 12V battery charger, but if it can also do 6V it would be more flexible. Sometimes a single wire needs another zap but it will go red hot almost instantly if you give it the full voltage, which is why variable voltage transformers are better.

 

[marcros]

Yes, sorry if I was being confusing. A 12V battery charger, but if it can also do 6V it would be more flexible. Sometimes a single wire needs another zap but it will go red hot almost instantly if you give it the full voltage, which is why variable voltage transformers are better.

Thanks rooftops, i have one of those- i will give it a try. I assume that i just touch the 2 ends of the wire for a second? and if it doesn't quite do it, a second second?

 

[Hombre]

Sounds about right. I made a very simple jig for drilling the holes, but drilled them centrally - so the wire is about central in the slot where I wanted the wax to be. Not a disaster but something to think about. I think that 0.5 to 1mm off the centre line might have been slightly better. Perhaps you can comment on that please RoofTops? I slid the wax along the wire into the slot sideways before embedding. I had hoped to slide it down the slot.

On a wire approximately the length used for one run on a National frame, using Thornes premium stainless steel wire I noticed that the current drawn from a 12V battery charger was around 6A, but I was looking at hot wire cutting of styrofoam. The charger is rated at 4A RMS.

Personally, on a super, I prefer to attach between the two runs and embed them seperately as it gives me more control. The first frame I did I both in series and almost got three strips of foundation to play with. Some people use a board to support the wax during the process but others don't bother and have no problems.

Personal experience is only 10 frames, so if in doubt listen to RoofTops.

I was amazed at the amount of expansion in the wire as it heated up. A light dimmer ahead of the battery charger would give you control, but not all dimmers are suitable for inductive loads presented by the charger transformer. Blipping is cheaper.

 

[RoofTops]

I use a board or jig to support the wax and the wires run centrally. With horizontal wires the foundation can be fitted before melting into any slots there might be in the top and bottom bars (not all have them) but with vertical wires I cut the foundation down slightly so it fits easily between the top and bottom bars. The bees fill any gaps.

 

[Onge]

Thank you all for your input.

Looks like wire is the way to go, but I'm sure I saw that Dave Cushman used fishing line ?

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[hedgerow pete]

dave did use fishing line 20lb if i remeber rightly, what you do is string the frames very tight and put it on top of you wax sheet, now all we have to do is to merge the wax and the plastic line, by either pouring on top moulton wax ( re very small line not bucket full) or by running something hot over the top of both , when the wax cools it will surround the two, dont belive any dribble about the line not being uv stabalized as it never gets to see the sun enough to weeken for the first 6 years!!!

 

[Onge]

Thanks pete im going to try embedding it anyway (fishing line is pretty tough).

If it all goes pear shaped ill do the wire thing.

 

[Poly Hive]

My board is home made and takes National (and Smith thereby) Brood and super, and Langstroth brood and super.

I drew around the frames and routed them out.

Said board screwed to the work bench, wire reel mounted off to one side and off you go.

I used a battery charger with a motor cycle range of 6V and used the terminals to heat the wire but in three "heats" a length. Trying to heat the whole wire is but self defeating.

PH

 

[Hombre]

Did a batch of wired supers over the last couple of days and found the following works best for me using a 12V car battery charger:

One terminal (large croc clip type) clamped on the bench-top (12mm ply) so that it's fixed.
Super frame wired and with foundation fitted in side slots, second bottom bar and wedge fitted, held with the horizontal wires running vertically, wires to the front of the foundation, frame held in left hand. Positive terminal clamped to a small pair of insulated pliers which in turn are manipulated to grip the centre of the wire running down the side bar, opposite the side bar with the wire terminations. The current is switched on at the beginning of a batch and the circuit completed for one wire at a time by touching the negative contact on the bench with the wire termination/ferrule. As current flows, you will probably hear a low hum and the wire will expand/slacken. At this point the pliers should be twisted to take up the slack and the left hand supporting the frame should gently ensure that the wax foundation is appropriately in contact with the hot wire. The circuit is broken by slightly lifting the frame. Heat in the wire will cause wax to flow down the wire if not careful. Tensioning the hot wire is important to me and saves the expense of buying a tool to crimp the wire to take out the slack - wire the frame as tightly as you can in the first place. Twisting the wire on the side bar with the pliers will do the same job, but don't bother doing it cold, just do it when the hot wire expands. Repeat for the second run of wire.

It works for me and I get to use the bit of ply that I originally used as an embedding board for something else. More sawdust perhaps!

 

[seaknight]

Hello, I'm new to beekeeping and have read about this method in Ted Hooper's iconic book; what are the advantages of this over buying ready wired foundation?

I set up my first hive, a National - last summer (using pre-wired foundation) and ordered my first nucleus of bees the other day, for delivery in the New Year.

Thanks

 

[Tom Bick]

Hi seknight its rather an old thread but no harm in it getting an airing once more.

As someone who has only used wired foundation in the past but these days prefers no foundation I would say for the people who wire their frames and then fit unwired foundation do so on cost as unwired foundation is cheaper than wired.