Fitting 14 x 12 frames in a National stadard BB?

[Oakbear]

Hi folks, dumb newbie question coming up!.....

I've just found out that the 5 nuc frames i'm collecting are 14 x 12 size.

I only have a standard national hive to put them in, and i'm not buying a box with the frames, but transferring the frames directly to my BB.

If i add a super underneath can i fit them in?
(But any standard frames i use will get comb built on the bottom?)
Or do i need to make any alterations?

I was planning on trying to encourage drone cells on th bottom of a couple of frames and removing them for varroa control anyway, but is this too much?

Do i need any conversion kit?

Am i better buying a 14 x 12 eke and new frames and foundation?
(Which seems a bit of a pain as i have already got a shiny new national set up. I'm hoping i can avoid another trip to Thornes, as i've only been this morning!)

Thanks!

 

[justme]

Hi folks, dumb newbie question coming up!.....

I've just found out that the 5 nuc frames i'm collecting are 14 x 12 size.

I only have a standard national hive to put them in, and i'm not buying a box with the frames, but transferring the frames directly to my BB.

If i add a super underneath can i fit them in?
(But any standard frames i use will get comb built on the bottom?)
Or do i need to make any alterations?

I was planning on trying to encourage drone cells on th bottom of a couple of frames and removing them for varroa control anyway, but is this too much?

Do i need any conversion kit?

Am i better buying a 14 x 12 eke and new frames and foundation?
(Which seems a bit of a pain as i have already got a shiny new national set up. I'm hoping i can avoid another trip to Thornes, as i've only been this morning!)

Thanks!

Hi, I'm also a newbie. I got my nuc on BS frames and am using Rose hives (OSB). BS brood frames are slightly deeper so I made a very simple eke. This seems to work very well and although I was expecting comb to be built on the bottom of the (OSB) frames theres none. They have though built on the bottom of the BS, some of which was there when I recieved them.
My bees are Italian though and different bees have different habits I understand.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[DulwichGnome]

I had this my first year and if you want to keep to a standard BB, put a super under your Box and fill out the BB with frames+foundation. If you then move the 14x12's to the outside on each inspection (but not if it has the queen on it) and replace with standard frames as they become broadless.

I put the super on top with frames and got into a mess.

Mike.

 

[andypigeon]

a supers to big you need a 4 inch peace of wood under the brood box or you can get a thing for about £20, i would get some 14x12 frames and use them saves messing around with frames of diffrent sizes. if you need frames i can swap you some im only in Derby and use both.

 

[Rosti]

B&Q sell planned 110mm x 18mm in 2.5m lengths. It's perfect for the job, they also sell the external corner braces to screw the two together. From my checks 14x12 brood boxes are disporoportionately expensive to standards and I cant find any seconds anyway so I have simply eked out my exisiting nationals and as I have expanded have bought extra national seconds and eked them as well.

 

[MuswellMetro]

a supers to big you need a 4 inch peace of wood under the brood box or you can get a thing for about £20, i would get some 14x12 frames and use them saves messing around with frames of diffrent sizes. if you need frames i can swap you some im only in Derby and use both.

if the bees come on 14x12 frames then they are the type of Bee that requires a larger box than a standard brood....in fact most Bees except black AMM bees now require either a standard brood plus super called brood and a half or a 14x12 but the hive suppliers dont say that

you can just add a super to your brood ( 225mm plus 150mm= 375mm) but you will get a LOT of drone comb

So in the short term either use a 85 mm eke ( 225+87mm= 312) or use your two supers (150mm +150mm = 300mm)

14x12 frames are 304mm so you can pinch 4mm /10mm from the21mm floor bee space with no problems....the future is either stay 14x12 frames or convert to double or brood and a half , you single brood box is not big enough for modern bees (espcially if they are already put on 14x12 by the prevois beekeeper)

i would sugest you stay with14x12 and buy an EKE or make one at 87-90mm ( four bits of 19mm floor board glueded and nailed will do

 

[Oakbear]

Thankyou everyone, that's been very helpful.

I must confess i'm still in a bit of a quandry as to what to do, as i'm getting the frames friday, and don't have the time to make an eke.
I could go to Thornes in the morning, but buying an eke and 14 x 12 frames and foundation would be an unwelcome extra expense, and i haven't time to make them up myself....
But i do understand the advantage of going for a bigger brood size....

As a compromise could i use the spare super, put the nuc frames in the brood with standard brood frames, and add super frames under the standard ones as brood and a half system?
I know i'd still get drone comb, but only on 5 frames. I could maybe then move them 'out' as the season goes on and make it a regular brood and a half?

 

[m100]

i'm getting the frames friday, and don't have the time to make an eke

Piece of wood around 90mm wide, cut it into four equal length pieces 460mm minus the thickness long

Fix together with 8 screws 4mm diameter 50mm long

Start to finish including visiting a DIY store and buying the wood and saw and screws - about an hour.

 

[Roy S]

Thankyou everyone, that's been very helpful.

I must confess i'm still in a bit of a quandry as to what to do, as i'm getting the frames friday, and don't have the time to make an eke.
I could go to Thornes in the morning, but buying an eke and 14 x 12 frames and foundation would be an unwelcome extra expense, and i haven't time to make them up myself....
But i do understand the advantage of going for a bigger brood size....

As a compromise could i use the spare super, put the nuc frames in the brood with standard brood frames, and add super frames under the standard ones as brood and a half system?
I know i'd still get drone comb, but only on 5 frames. I could maybe then move them 'out' as the season goes on and make it a regular brood and a half?

If you havent got time to sort anything else out, what you've just suggested will work and give you some time to breathe. You can then decide on wether you want to go for 14x12, double brood, or brood and a half.

 

[Oakbear]

Glad that'll work for the time being.

Things here are really hectic at present, finding a spare hour (at a reasonable woodworking hour!) genuinely would be a struggle!

I've got a chance at getting my first bees though, so even though it's a bad time, i can't resist the chance to get started asap!

In a week or 2 i should have time to spend the afternoon in my workshop and cobble together whatever it is i've decided on!

Thanks again for the input, and any more suggestions are welcome.