First catch your bees- bait hives anyone?

[youngyoungs]

Just wondered - how many people use bait hives? Where do you put them and how successful are they?

 

[dickbowyer]

I have "caught" a swarm each of the last two years I set up a bait hive in my garden. Old cleaned hive with few old combs and the remainder new foundation, swarm lure with hive on stand facing south. Hive 30m down the garden to isolate from main apiary in garden containing 2-4 hives. Swarms were not my own bees! My own swarm was hived and then flew off When scout bees show interest, it is either because there may be an incoming swarm or missed Q cells in your own hives.

 

[oliver90owner]

Success or failure depends on several factors. The first is whether there are many swarms that season; a second might depend on how many others are putting out attractive unoccupied bee homes in the close vicinity; another may be the position of the offering. Yet others may be the swarm lure, the size of the cavity, the entrance, etc, etc. Even a bit of dowsing may help.

Half or two thirds has been the usual uptake for me in the past, but I am neither an 'avid' collector of swarms nor bait hive trapper; just careful what I put out and where I put them. One puts them where one best expects them to be occupied, of course.

These days my offering is normally a 5/6 frame jumb National nuc, with 1/2 super above containing at least one old brooded frame (and other frames with starter strips of wax).

Solid floor, with an approx 50 x 20 entrance, a smattering of lemon grass oil and with the entrance at about two metres from the ground out of direct sunlight for most of the day.

Preferably where ley lines cross, of course.

Those with lots of hives probably clip their queens so would not bother with bait hives. They might otherwise be quite successful with bait hives, if they were inefficient with the extra swarm controls necessary, whereas someone hoping to start beekeeping by putting out one poor exhibit in a poor location might have zero success.

Hope that puts things in perspective.

Now tell us your plans and we may be able to offer tips and advice to improve your chance of success.

RAB

 

[drstitson]

2/5 bait hives this year. one this month.

range of receptacles - old smith hive, poly LS, converted poly boxes. old frame, swarm lure.

 

[Poly Hive]

the classic advice is a container of a volume of 40 litres.

I had two swarms arrive in my apiary into national Brood boxes.

I had two swarms arrive at the business here and they took over National nucs.

*shrug*

All four were prime swarms as there were eggs with in five days.

All four though, and it pays to bear this in mind, were small prime swarms so they seem to know what volume their swarm requires.

Seems to be a bespoke choice.

Oh yes and the official bait hive a national with lovely black comb and a good dressing of lemongrass oil achieved 0

Bees do nothing invariably you see. .....

PH

 

[derekm]

were any of the boxes the bees took over poly rather than wood ?

 

[For want of a better word]

2 / 3 bait hives attracted new colonies.....
one so nasty it is going to be split and requeened in spring ( produced 1 super of honey)
other nice little grey bees, good tempered, prolific and productive.. shall keep them!

Lemon grass is a major component of bait sausage
I use std National with solid floor and mix of new and old brood comb

Have rarely had a "marked" queen move in !

Never in a Nuc box.. but once ( long long ago Grandads old chimney pot on the allotment was a favored swarm hole!)

 

[bobster]

Swarms and bait hives, Professor Tom Seeley's your man.

Bait Hives for Honey Bees

How Bees Find a new Home

Bobster

 

[victor meldrew]

It's all about Ley lines ask our friend Roger P.
VM

 

[fiftyjon]

I set up an old national brood box on a solid floor without an entrance block, 2 metres high and facing south. It contained one old used brood frame in the centre and two/three frames with foundation either side. The floor had a few drops of lemongrass oil splashed about.
I had three swarms arrive (none were from my hives and they weren't prime swarms either) which I then placed into other hives after a few weeks or so, when eggs were seen/laid.
I was encouraged and will attempt again next year in the same position.

 

[jakethedog]

Swarms and bait hives, Professor Tom Seeley's your man............Bobster

A couple of nice links Bobster -always nice to see a good link posted, thanks.

 

[newportbuzz]

Swarms and bait hives, Professor Tom Seeley's your man.

Bait Hives for Honey Bees

How Bees Find a new Home

Bobster

nery nice vids in the second link thanks

 

[newportbuzz]

ive started making my bait boxes for next year heres a few pics of them. They take 5 national frames and can be nailed to pretty much anything. i havn't cut an entrance hole yet or a nail hole as my hole saw is not at home at the moment.
This one is made from pallets an old table top and a bit of very shoddy plywood. it will be painted hopefully green if i can get some cheap paint.
if a swarm moves in i will unscrew the top which is the only bit which is screwed everything else nailed. and cut away any brace comb at the sidebars and then install the frames and bees to a hive.
i havnt thought about weather proofing the roof yet but i hope that the paint will stop me having to.

 

[For want of a better word]

ive started making my bait boxes for next year heres a few pics of them. They take 5 national frames and can be nailed to pretty much anything. i havn't cut an entrance hole yet or a nail hole as my hole saw is not at home at the moment.
This one is made from pallets an old table top and a bit of very shoddy plywood. it will be painted hopefully green if i can get some cheap paint.
if a swarm moves in i will unscrew the top which is the only bit which is screwed everything else nailed. and cut away any brace comb at the sidebars and then install the frames and bees to a hive.
i havnt thought about weather proofing the roof yet but i hope that the paint will stop me having to.

Weather proofing ? surely bees only swarm when the weather is fine ? or would you keep the swarm in the bait hive for some time to get established?

AND PLEASE>>>>Remember beekie etiquette... don't blatantly put your bait hives obviously close to another beekie's apiary !!!

(if someone did that to me they would be flat packed PDQ !)

 

[victor meldrew]

Weather proofing ? surely bees only swarm when the weather is fine ? or would you keep the swarm in the bait hive for some time to get established?

AND PLEASE>>>>Remember beekie etiquette... don't blatantly put your bait hives obviously close to another beekie's apiary !!!

(if someone did that to me they would be flat packed PDQ !)

Bees tend to swarm further afield than the vicinity of the parent apiary ?
After the initial clustering the scout bees try to locate suitable premises a way off?
If a bait hive is placed without your apiary then to interfere with it would rightly be construed as criminal activety and rightly so?
VM

 

[newportbuzz]

Weather proofing ? surely bees only swarm when the weather is fine ? or would you keep the swarm in the bait hive for some time to get established?

AND PLEASE>>>>Remember beekie etiquette... don't blatantly put your bait hives obviously close to another beekie's apiary !!!

(if someone did that to me they would be flat packed PDQ !)

id guess id check them every few weeks or so, so a shower is very possible


As for close to other beeks dont you think that when you lose a swarm and someone else gets it its ok.
This should be no diferent at least it isnt going into someones chimney or wall.

If you manage your colonys well you should have nothing to fear from a few other peoples bait boxes around the place. they arnt gunna catch your bees anyway are they? cos u didnt let yours swarm.
if you did then its a bit far sayin they are yours for ever but dont sue me if they take hold in your roof and cost you thousands to get out.

 

[For want of a better word]

AND PLEASE>>>>Remember beekie etiquette... don't blatantly put your bait hives obviously close to another beekie's apiary !!!


I am well aware of the facts concerning bee swarming behavior and generally do not allow swarming to occur, as do most other beekeepers, with considered management.... but bees beeing beees........... and I "did not ride up the river on a bike", as they say !!!


A considerable amount of animosity could be generated by blatant positioning of bait hives in a close proximity to another apiary !

 

[Into the lions den]

Bait hives.

Many many opinions on these. In our experience there is a lot of odd stuff written and most is opinion and little is fact.

So far as we can see the only real variant in attractiveness is height off the ground (within reason of course, if it is above flying height it will never be found).

A bait hive should be well up clear of the ground, 1.5 metres and above seems to be best, and in fact we can catch 10 times the swarms at our home base (we have no bees nearby at all) with boxes set up att hat level and above, and if you can get them up onot a shed roof even better, they are like swarm magnets. Have never tried swarm lures, but yes, combs which have been well lived in always bring more swarms than nice perfect white ones, and if you try with foundation it is a waste of time. Must smell of bees for a good strike rate.

Tried the lemongrass oil out of curiosity................zip all, yet the baits on either side hit lucky.

If you ARE lucky enough to get one into your bait hive close it in and move it away to an out apiary immediately. Replace it right away with a fresh one. the scout bees have found that location already, and you can get the secondary swarms as well by seeing that the preferred destination remains vacant. Have had three in as many days, all simlar looking bees, come to sucessive bait hives set up on the same honey barrel at the back of our yard.

We HAVE to set bait hives around the place as it stops the swarms going inot our box store shed. ( Which they do if no baits about for them.) Last seasons tally at home base was 15.

I have an old French bee mag lying about somewhere and in it they dismiss the notion of swarm lures, saying the traditional way of preparing a bait hive to attract swarms was still the most effective. Perhaps 'Faire pisser dans le ruche' is rather less appealing as an option, particualrly at extracting time..................

 

[mbc]

bees do like salty water !

 

[Chris B]

To summarize Thomas Seeley's findings, bait hives have better chance of success if matching the following criteria.

Optimum volume = 1 Langstroth brood
Entrance size = 1.5 inch diameter i.e. quite small
South facing
Height = as high as you can safely
Include some old comb (he also mentioned propolis)