Fiddling vs curiosity/necessity

[Newbeeneil]

That's me

Go on ........

Taking them off, it just a case of carefully peeling them off from one corner until you get 90% off then placing a finger on the the opposite corner and giving a twist. It then doesn’t ping off.
Replacing is similar but just starting at one edge and carefully roll the QX on while you give a good puff of smoke.
Because you can see what you are doing you rarely crush any bees using this method.
I tend to crush more while replacing supers as both hands are full and you can’t administer a puff of smoke when required.

 

[Newbeeneil]

you obviously need to think a bit about improving your beekeeping if you cannot even use a smoker for one of the few reasons it's really needed. In this particular scenario, the only useless tool I can see is the beekeeper.
When I took over the association apiary, all they had were stamped galv. queen excluders (I must say I do not like the plastic ones, but that's a different matter) can't recall ever squishing bees when putting them in place. All it took was a few puffs of smoke and a bit of thinking

JBM, I think it’s a case of being taught beekeeping with framed QXs. If that’s what you are used to you probably don’t know how to use a different bit of kit. I was taught by a guy who has 2” nails replacing broken lugs on his frames so paying 3 times more for a QX would be a nightmare!!!

 

[Antipodes]

I was taught by a guy who has 2” nails replacing broken lugs on his frames

I find 2 inch screws work better

 

[Curly green finger's]

I find 2 inch screws work better

I’ve got a few frames with two screws in because of broken lugs I’ve found the nails either fall out or come loose

 

[Newbeeneil]

I find 2 inch screws work better

Ah, but my mentor would say screws are expensive

 

[ericbeaumont]

taught beekeeping with framed QXs

Began my first year with old galv bendy QXs (inherited from the deceased allotment beekeeper) and saw that bees propolised & braced them to hell; as a consequence the uneven QX never went back flush, and getting bees to shift when putting it back on was like herding cats on a dark night. Green plastic flat QXs are no different, just a modern version of the same but without the sharp metal slot edges that wear out bee wings.

while you give a good puff of smoke.

administer a puff of smoke when required.

All it took was a few puffs of smoke

Waste of time, irritates bees, irritates me, demonstrates that the equipment is inefficient.

How on earth do you manage to squash bees with these QX?

Well, I used them for a few months when they became popular (about fifteen years ago?) at about the same time Thorne put out the news that in one production run the slots were inaccurate.

Setting that aside, it is self-evident to me to that to put two flat surfaces together (alright, top bars have gaps) with ridges of propolis, brace comb and moving bees in-between is going to end in tears, if not when the bees are smoked to get the QX on, then when the box goes on and compresses the QX.

2” nails replacing broken lugs on his frames so paying 3 times more for a QX

Yes, I use the same cheap method because it works well, but by the same token will pay for an expensive wood-framed QX because that also works most efficiently.

framed QXs a pain because of the brace comb encouraged by the double bee space.

The QX frame sets the gap at one beespace. Brace comb will only appear if the beekeeper is late adding box space, by which time they'll just as likely to have braced side bars and crownboard.

you obviously need to think a bit about improving your beekeeping

Always do, JBM, every day, but in this case I don't intend to use a piece of equipment made cheaply but badly by manufacturers that put price before effective product about 90 years ago.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Began my first year with old galv bendy QXs (inherited from the deceased allotment beekeeper) and saw that bees propolised & braced them to hell; as a consequence the uneven QX never went back flush, and getting bees to shift when putting it back on was like herding cats on a dark night. Green plastic flat QXs are no different, just a modern version of the same but without the sharp metal slot edges that wear out bee wings.




Waste of time, irritates bees, irritates me, demonstrates that the equipment is inefficient.


Well, I used them for a few months when they became popular (about fifteen years ago?) at about the same time Thorne put out the news that in one production run the slots were inaccurate.

Setting that aside, it is self-evident to me to that to put two flat surfaces together (alright, top bars have gaps) with ridges of propolis, brace comb and moving bees in-between is going to end in tears, if not when the bees are smoked to get the QX on, then when the box goes on and compresses the QX.


Yes, I use the same cheap method because it works well, but by the same token will pay for an expensive wood-framed QX because that also works most efficiently.


The QX frame sets the gap at one beespace. Brace comb will only appear if the beekeeper is late with adding box space, by which time they'll just as likely to have braced side bars and crownboard.


Always do, JBM, every day, but in this case I don't intend to use a piece of equipment made cheaply but badly by manufacturers that put price before effective product about 90 years ago.

As I said Eric, each to their own.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

JBM, I think it’s a case of being taught beekeeping with framed QXs. If that’s what you are used to you probably don’t know how to use a different bit of kit. I was taught by a guy who has 2” nails replacing broken lugs on his frames so paying 3 times more for a QX would be a nightmare!!!

I've used framed wire QX's from the outset, although the first ones I had were metal frames with no real beespace (God know where I got them from) but since then I've experienced all kinds, including both plastic and galv 'flat' QX's (the dislike of plastic is just a personal thing - they were just created to appease the hand wringers who reckon the metal ones tore the bees' wings! ), just the same as replacing a super, you just give then a moment to realise what's happening and they soon move out of the way - in fact, with QX's they just go through the slots - as it's designed to do, takes no more time to put on than a framed wire QX.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I've used framed wire QX's from the outset, although the first ones I had were metal frames with no real beespace (God know where I got them from) but since then I've experienced all kinds, including both plastic and galv 'flat' QX's (the dislike of plastic is just a personal thing - they were just created to appease the hand wringers who reckon the metal ones tore the bees' wings! ), just the same as replacing a super, you just give then a moment to realise what's happening and they soon move out of the way - in fact, with QX's they just go through the slots - as it's designed to do, takes no more time to put on than a framed wire QX.

As I’ve said here before, I don’t come here for augments or debates, I come here to observe, learn, give my observations and share any knowledge than others may consider valid.
As far as I’m concerned my beekeeping might not be right in other peoples eyes but it works for me .

 

[Ely]

Do you think queen excluders encourage swarming or limit the size of the colony? I'm undecided

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do you think queen excluders encourage swarming or limit the size of the colony? I'm undecided

well they will limit the size of the colony as it restricts the size of the brood space, so I suppose if the queen runs out of room to lay the bees will then seek a site elsewhere

 

[Curly green finger's]

They can yes if you haven’t kept on top of expansion

 

[Vanterrier]

Meanwhile...
There was a window of weather, sunny, calm and 12deg so I did the changeover as required and had no problems.
Fondant was mostly gone, say 1/2 kg left in the wrapper. The bees had not moved into the loose, bagged insulation in the eke and had not chewed the bag so that came off OK.
Once the wrapper was off and the QE exposed I could see a few bees but they obligingly moved down with a couple of puffs of smoke.
The QE came off easily with very little propolis evident.
A polycarbonate clear board with frame went on and I aligned the new feeder with about 2kg fondant in then put in the PIR insulation with the opening for the feeder.
Finally a couple of pads of sponge underlay to fill the remaining gap, put the plain unframed CB and PIR insulated roof back on, followed by the outside wrap ensuring the entrance was clear.
Just finished tidying up and it started to rain but by then most of the bees were back inside with very very few losses.
I'm happy with that and no need to "fiddle" again for quite a while.
Thanks all and Merry Christmas.
K

 

[Mint Bee]

Do you think queen excluders encourage swarming or limit the size of the colony? I'm undecided

there are those that teach any queen that needs more than a standard national brood box for laying is excessively profligate and should be culled. That's one way of avoiding a QX and limiting the size of the colony.......

 

[ericbeaumont]

weather, sunny, calm and 12deg

Same here; did 4 yesterday. Have another this week where I must open the nest, disrupt the queen, disturb the combs, make a mess, use smoke and generally cause havoc, not to say distress to any beekeeper who believes that bees should be left alone all winter.

View attachment Woodford Green2 Dec23.mp4

 

[madasafish]

Do you think queen excluders encourage swarming or limit the size of the colony? I'm undecided

I have always used QEs. As long as I keep my Qs young (2 years or less), give them lots of room through supering EARLY when bees are on 8 out of 10 frames and put QE when I super then I don't get many swarms (I also Re Q any swarms I collect to avoid propagating bees with a potential for swarminess)
Running Lang Jumbos I do get very large colonies.
Last year I had none of my own colonies swarm. Prior year 2 out of 10. Prior year to that 5 out of 10!

 

[Curly green finger's]

Same here; did 4 yesterday. Have another this week where I must open the nest, disrupt the queen, disturb the combs, make a mess, use smoke and generally cause havoc, not to say distress to any beekeeper who believes that bees should be left alone all winter.

View attachment 38385

That sounds like fun I can’t wait to have to take an established swarm out of a tree

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

there are those that teach any queen that needs more than a standard national brood box for laying is excessively profligate and should be culled.

the same ones who worry about when the next meteor will strike

 

[ericbeaumont]

Nice steady work, though cold weather means more loss as they fall, so a beevac box will be used for that one, and combs & food & a strip added when we get it back to base.

Take your kids out to help. I hired my 17 year-old frame maker for a small barn wall job this summer; it was his second meeting with bees but he went up the ladder, hoicked out the wall timbers, cut & framed the combs and enjoyed himself. He spends a lot of time game designing at college & home but has taken easily to meeting nature head-on.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Nice steady work, though cold weather means more loss as they fall, so a beevac box will be used for that one, and combs & food & a strip added when we get it back to base.

Take your kids out to help. I hired my 17 year-old frame maker for a small barn wall job this summer; it was his second meeting with bees but he went up the ladder, hoicked out the wall timbers, cut & framed the combs and enjoyed himself. He spends a lot of time game designing at college & home but has taken easily to meeting nature head-on.

View attachment 38387View attachment 38388

You mean you had to pay your frame maker ?
I have been asked this season to remove a few from walls eves etc but they just were to high and a ladder wouldn’t of worked, at the time I was rushed so I declined using a cherry picker.