Far NW UK newbie questions

[Murox]

Thank you all for the inputs.
I read about a man whose name I should have remembered who worked with bees at the college in Stornoway and then Aberdeen around 1900 IIRC who designed a hive to be left on the moor year round, and was so heavy you couldn't easily move it if you wanted too! So perhaps DIY with scaffold boards and paving slabs is an option too. Or a poly hive inside a weighed down wheelie bin with a hole cut in the front. Or the first in-situ concrete hive?

@Boston Bees is right.
I think the man you are referring to was Dr John Anderson ? with the Glen hive. - just happens there is an article about him and the hive in this months Scottish Beekeeper magazine. Or you can read the same information on the blog of The Beelistener (thats Ann Chilcott) the guest article by Paul and Jean 3/july/2020.

 

[Boston Bees]

It is possible I am thinking of what the wind can do too much, but it would be silly to have a hive broken because of it when I could have done something to minimise the effects. A few years ago the non-rooted Christmas tree I'd taken out a week earlier nearly took my head off flying about 50m from where I'd left it. This winter a yacht in a sheltered local yard got pushed on it's side needing a crane to pick up again (tied down mast removed), a neighbours ally 15' boat strapped to its trailer flew down the length of their house landing upside down, about seven years ago three doors up had their house roof blown off. Most wind is winter and overnight, so hopefully it won't be a non-starter for the bees, who will have a fair degree of shelter unlike that house. Building for a nice view on a hill is a bit daft IMHO

PS: I should have added - re straps, you will want to use good ratchet straps, rather than the ones I use, which are fine for my location but not yours

 

[pargyle]

Thank you all for the inputs.
I read about a man whose name I should have remembered who worked with bees at the college in Stornoway and then Aberdeen around 1900 IIRC who designed a hive to be left on the moor year round, and was so heavy you couldn't easily move it if you wanted too! So perhaps DIY with scaffold boards and paving slabs is an option too. Or a poly hive inside a weighed down wheelie bin with a hole cut in the front. Or the first in-situ concrete hive?

You could have a look at this hive if you are not going to move them around ...

https://www.thezesthive.com/
You could build it around standard frames - 14 x 12 for instance rather than using Bill's very deep ones - silicon sealant between the blocks ... you would have a very toasty and absolutely gale proof hive ... and the bees love a long deep hive ... I have one ...


https://www.flickr.com/photos/99514363@N06/albums/72157634865981506
It's a triple wall construction - Victorian floorboards inside and pallet wood outside with a polystyrene core ..it takes two strong men to lift it so there would be no chance of it blowing over.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Swienty has a bigger footprint than wooden but is compatible with wooden: Compatible with wood .comes assembled. very strong.No leaks

Swienty footprint is 460 x 460 mm and matches the standard National footprint.

It's sold flat-pack because transport is priced on volume, and it locks together well with polyurethane glue. Mind you, the expense of glue, paint and labour must be considered.

Swienty all the way

Originally designed as top bee space, Swienty converted it later to bottom beespace by the addition of plastic runners. My guess is that Swienty realised long after the TBS moulds were made, that to sell well in the UK it would have to be BBS to match the prevailing wood format.

They didn't bother to go to the trouble and expense of changing the mould to adapt the box to BBS, so two wider base rims of 35mm each crush bees when replacing boxes. Not only that, but that width guarantees that the rims are propolised to the ends of the top bars below.

The dimension between opposite lug recesses is excessive and frames can offset easily leading to side bars propolised to end walls. No big deal? Wait till you waste time ungluing frames when they're covered in bees.

The top box rims were re-designed to curve to match a re-designed roof; the curves were found to be a weak point (no field trials, clearly) and Swienty returned to using the original square-cut roof. Did they re-mould the box rim to match? No, of course not. Is this junction thermally efficient? Doubt it.

The Ashforth feeder was also designed as TBS so it has a flat base; if you want to run it BBS then an 8mm rim of stripwood will have to be fitted (more parts and labour).

By the time the glue and bits and paint are paid for and labour used to fix this dog's dinner of a hive, you'd be far better off with Abelo, a one-piece unit that's ready painted and can have bees in it two minutes after the delivery driver has left.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I do like their floor design which gives a simple 8/9mm entrance

I don't (although the 8mm entrance is sensible and keeps out mice).

Reason I don't like it is that it has a bevelled interior recess to suit the mesh floor. In practice bees build comb on the underside of frames above the recess, but not on the end 3 or 4 frames which have 8mm beneath them.

This wastes management time: central frames must be cleaned of comb before they can be moved to the sides of the box or moved up into another brood box. Oh, and within a season or two bees propolise the mesh solid: holes are the wrong size.

Seven design faults so far. Still keen?

 

[pargyle]

You see ... even the most popular boxes have their flaws ... I like the Paynes boxes ... some people (mainly those who practice migratory beekeeping) dislike the huge landing board ... but I like it because I'm and avid bee watcher. It's good solid and thick polystyrene, the roof is a good thickness, the floor connects to the brood box with shaped lugs which some people dislike but they don't bother me. They are not compatible with timber hives but I'm not a fan of mixing timber and poly so no bother to me.

As I said originally, it is a matter of personal preference and what floats your boat ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

but I like it because I'm and avid bee watcher.

I spend endless hours sitting in the grass in front of my hives binoculars in hand.

 

[ChrisS]

To add my tuppence worth - I have several Maisemore poly hives and nucs. They are about the only suppliers who do Commercial boxes and 6-frame nucs. They are bottom bee space, whereas all my wooden Commercial brood boxes and national supers are top bee space. That was a deliberate choice, I either buy them with top space or do a bit of carpentry when assembling them. I have some wire queen excluders with a bee space each side, so I can put a wooden brood box or super on top of the Maisemore.

 

[Murox]

Question for @ericbeaumont - which size hole in a mesh floor do bees not propolise? (post 45)

 

[ericbeaumont]

Question for @ericbeaumont - which size hole in a mesh floor do bees not propolise? (post 45)

Bigger ones.

Square mesh is usually ignored, apart from strips near the edges.

Swienty are round and easy pickings for bees intent on optimising thermals.

The Abelo Ashforth poly feeder has a stainless slotted steel baffle. Bees love to seal those!

 

[Murox]

Bigger ones.

Square mesh is usually ignored, apart from strips near the edges.

Swienty are round and easy pickings for bees intent on optimising thermals.

The Abelo Ashforth poly feeder has a stainless slotted steel baffle. Bees love to seal those!

I thought you were being flippant - had not thought of the square v round hole difference. Interestingly I have not (yet) experienced any issues at all with either comb being drawn below the frames or propolisation in swienty hives.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Square mesh is usually ignored

define 'usually' I've often witnessed bees propolising square mesh - and certainly not just around the edges.

 

[ericbeaumont]

a matter of personal preference

Got four hives of Swienty boxes in stock from a defunct project, and using more this season bought (by a previous beekeeper) for a church roof contract, so I've just got to get on with them.

Pulled out the runners and running them as designed first: TBS.

 

[Hairy]

For reference, an Abello 12 frame poly hive does not fit in a 240l wheelie bin