Failed AS

[Erichalfbee]

When you make an AS on foundations, bees start to draw very quickly them, because they need them.

Yes I understand that but what if there is no nectar flow. What do the bees use to draw wax?

 

[Finman]

Yes I understand that but what if there is no nectar flow. What do the bees use to draw wax?

I put 3 crystallized frames to the AS.
Or I give a feeding box and 5 kg sugar as 30% syrup.

 

[Finman]

Bees won't use stored honey to draw wax

They really do. I use to give 3 crystallized frames honey and foundations. Bees eate and clean those 3 frames for laying.

After a week I have 3 frames young brood in the hive and fully drawn combs
+++++++
But if there is a good flow for example from raspberry there is no idea to feed the bees with sugar or with honey combs. Nectar flow is too heavy to fill one box, and the laying is in problems.

 

[Moody]

I put 3 crystallized frames to the AS.

Thank you.
What are crystalised frames?

I give a feeding box and 5 kg sugar as 30% syrup.

How do I make 5kg sugar as 30% syrup?
Also, if feeding syrup do I still give even with supers? Will they not store the syrup in the supers?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thank you.
What are crystalised frames?


How do I make 5kg sugar as 30% syrup?
Also, if feeding syrup do I still give even with supers? Will they not store the syrup in the supers?

Brood frames where the honey has crystallised. Any honey is ok. Finman just has a surplus of these

Add 6 litres of water. Gives you near enough 1:1

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if feeding syrup do I still give even with supers? Will they not store the syrup in the supers?

they will

 

[Moody]

Brood frames where the honey has crystallised. Any honey is ok. Finman just has a surplus of these

Add 6 litres of water. Gives you near enough 1:1

Ta. So what's the solution?

Should I temporarily remove the super and feed syrup?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ta. So what's the solution?

Should I temporarily remove the super and feed syrup?

I don't really know. Taking the super off crossed my mind too. But give the bees only a couple of litres, wait a few days and repeat? You don't want them drawing wax then filling it with syrup
I'm doing a Demaree tomorrow. I DO NOT want to lose this queen. I've already lost a good one. There isn't a flow....yet so I'm giving the bees some drawn comb in the bottom. Failing that I would try Finn's trick of giving them a brood frame of honey and pollen.
You won't have drawn frames yet. Whatever you get ever.....hang on to them. They are a really valuable resource

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm doing a Demaree tomorrow. I DO NOT want to lose this queen. I've already lost a good one. There isn't a flow....yet so I'm giving the bees some drawn comb in the bottom

I'm lucky at the moment, having plenty of clean drawn comb from last year mean's I can give each queen four or five frames drawn comb for each Demarree (originally Demarree himself would always use drawn comb rather than foundation) but now the dearth is here, there's not much drawing going on which is why, even if I don't want to, I have to roll the Demarree's although at least it gives the opportunity of getting any stores they've invariably put in the top box back down to the brood box where it's needed.

 

[Finman]

Ioriginally Demarree himself would always use drawn comb rather than foundation)

But I have noticed myself during 40 years, that 30% out of cases bees continue swarming fever if I give ready combs.

When I give foundations, no italian colony continued swarming fever.

When I have made 15 years AS with Carniolan swarmy traits, they were much more difficult to stop swarming.

I learned AS from British beekeeping book 45 years ago. Method has worked well. In Finland AS method was unknown in those days. And even today guys do not like to do it.

I do not know how Black hives react to AS system. They were mad bees when I had them 25 years.

 

[Finman]

And when I use 1-2 boxes foundations with artificial swarms, they make easily new combs and clean crystallized honey combs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have noticed myself during 40 years, that 30% out of cases bees continue swarming fever if I give ready combs.

Agree - but I was talking Demarree not A/S

 

[Finman]

Agree - but I was talking Demarree not A/S

In USA they call Padgen and AS as Demaree.
It is written in USA, that Demaree invented, that when you separate the laying queen and brood, it cuts the swarming fever. They continue, that there are many variations about Demaree idea.

Sourge: MAAREC letters. Consortion of 6 US universities

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

pointless debating with something who doesn't listen
or is actually aware of the difference.
Try reading both the original versions

 

[Finman]

pointless debating with something who doesn't listen
or is actually aware of the difference.
Try reading both the original versions

You are same caliber.

Original version from 1880. ...

 

[Wingy]

This has happened to a number of my colonies this season
The 1/2 of the split with the old Q (some 2020 some 2021) have them thrown up a couple of Q cells within a couple of weeks. I know I didn’t miss any as they all went on to fresh drawn comb with no brood at all. These I think were supercedure attempts