Expert diagnosis please

[seymour]

Hi everyone
I checked out a friends hive today. This hive swarmed about 6 weeks ago. What I found inside is :
Every frame contained only about 15/20 drone cells in a pepperpot pattern. No sign of queen, lots of drones and workers,only drone brood. 3 or 4 empty queen cells.
My opinion is, the hive is queenless and has a drone laying worker acting as queen. It needs requeening.
Do you agree ? and can I requeen at this time of year.
Thanks for any help.

John

 

[freethorpe bees]

John I wish I was experienced enough to be able to advise! It does sound as though workers are producing drone brood but as for the requeening bit - I'll leave that to the experts!

Hope all goes well.

FB

 

[jezd]

Drone laying worker, its a pain, in my experience a drone laying queen fills everything with drones as if she was laying worker eggs.

Your location should be no issue with re-queening, I did it myself a week ago as its a large colony and she should lay very quickly.

What was the temperament like? mine was a little miffy on examining.

Its only mid August.

Jez

 

[seymour]

Thanks for the prompt replies. The bees were very calm, but did seem a bit `lost` Anybody recommend somewhere to buy a queen, preferably Buckfast ?
Thanks

John

 

[freethorpe bees]

Coo - a Buckfast queen would be the perfect Christmas present!!!

 

[Dishmop]

Coo - a Buckfast queen would be the perfect Christmas present!!!

several of them and you could make a sandwich...

 

[justme]

Hi everyone
I checked out a friends hive today. This hive swarmed about 6 weeks ago. What I found inside is :
Every frame contained only about 15/20 drone cells in a pepperpot pattern. No sign of queen, lots of drones and workers,only drone brood. 3 or 4 empty queen cells.
My opinion is, the hive is queenless and has a drone laying worker acting as queen. It needs requeening.
Do you agree ? and can I requeen at this time of year.
Thanks for any help.

John

Hi can you see any eggs? If so and theya re at the bottom ofthe cell as opposed to onthe sides then you have a drone laying queen (DLQ) and not laying workers. A better situation I would think.

Requeening would be possible I would think, due to time of year but much harder if you have laying workers.

 

[Gardenbees]

Laying workers should be evident from the pattern of eggs. Certainly sounds like it. I've not experienced this with my own bees, but I gather a determinedly laying worker can prove hard to introduce a queen to: they can reject her. Think there's a thread about this elsewhere on the forum.

If you're really keen on Buckfast bees you might be able to get a Buckfast queen from honeybeesuppliers (http://www.honeybeesuppliers.co.uk/Queens - Buckfast.htm). I got a nuc from there this year and the bees are lovely - real sweeties and very clean and hardworking. It's a bit of a distance to send one, though, if you're in France...
There's also a supplier in Denmark who might have some: http://www.buckfast.dk/uk.htm - pricey though I expect.

 

[oliver90owner]

Very simple. A test frame, or more, is required to be sure the colony is Q- and in a state which has a chance of a queen being accepted easily.

RAB

 

[Midland Beek]

Its laying workers or drone laying queen and you have to make an informed decision on which based on the fashion in which eggs are being laid.

 

[MJBee]

You may be able to get a Queen from these people

www.abeilledauvergne.com/pdf/reines_essaims.pdf

Their "Buma" queens are excellent - I have one in her 3rd season and still laying wall to wall brood. I have bred from her and her daughters and grand-daughters are equally good.

Vital though to establish whether the colony has a drone laying queen OR laying worker(s). A test frame will give the solution. If DLQ she must be found, if LW take the hive 50yds away and shake every bee off the frames and out of the box, place box and frames back on original site.
Good luck

 

[seymour]

Thanks everybody.

 

[VEG]

No point in introducing a new queen if there are laying workers as the bees will simply kill the introduced queen as they think they are queenright. Just hope its a drone laying queen which is easier to sort out.

 

[seymour]

Vital though to establish whether the colony has a drone laying queen OR laying worker(s). A test frame will give the solution. If DLQ she must be found, if LW take the hive 50yds away and shake every bee off the frames and out of the box, place box and frames back on original site.
Good luck

Thanks for the reply MJBee
If I shake all the bees off 50yds away, do I presume that the laying worker will not fly back to the original site ?

 

[MJBee]

That is the theory - there are likely to be more than one laying worker and they put on wieght and find it difficult to fly. I have only had this problem once - it was discovered during my basic exam practical The examiner told me what to do and it worked

PS I passed the exam too

 

[Chris B]

You haven't mentioned strength of the colony and whether it's the only colony owned. It's rarely easy to pull them round and even if you get a new queen in the colony might still go down rapidly.
Another option is to simply shake the bees out and let them join a neighbouring hive. If you want a replacement colony split a nuc off a big healthy one and put a new queen in that - much safer.

 

[keithgrimes]

Probably nit-picking but the advise I have had was 200 yards is about optimum (although who did the research I have no idea)

 

[Adam]

I think, given the point in the season, they are going to be too late to build up and survive the winter. Even if you managed to get a new queen laying, I think the colony would die in the winter through lack of bees. You'd be better placing a twenty pound bet at 20:1 and getting a nuc in the spring - your odds would be better than trying to get the colony through the winter after buying a queen. I reckon buying a queen and introducing her (even after shaking bees out etc) is equivalent to burning a twenty pound note.

I'd remove the hive, shake the bees out and let them find their way back into other colonies. Just put it down to bad luck - late requeening which failed.

Adam