Even nastier bees?

[Zaphod]

I was about to respond to the "Nasty Bees" post because I have a a similar question. But as I was writing it I realised I would hi-jack my fellow beeks question. So my apologies to NoPants. Perhaps we can both learn.

I have two hives. One is totally lovable, but the other is the spawn of the devil. I've tried re-queening but they're still evil. They attack me and passers-by. They go berserk when I try to inspect them. They stung me 10 times on Saturday right through my bee suit. The alternative is to wear three layers and fill my boots with perspiration which I frequently do. The chairman of my local club says they're intolerable. Frankly, I'm now scared of them.

I can see eggs so there's someone home but I can't find the queen else I'd happily strangle her. I have to use so much smoke that she's probably on the floor of the hive. I've tried using little or no smoke but you really take your life in your hands. I've thought about filtering them through a QE but they'd raise hell in the process.

If I dump them over a hedge will the evil queen find her way home? I could then unite the returners with my nice bees. I've already created a nuke from the gentle hive with a new supersedure queen.

Please help me or is it time for a cup of petrol?

Z

 

[oliver90owner]

I've tried re-queening but they're still evil.

Daughter of the previous evil queen?

Simply split the brood into two sections and wait. The queenless section will soon make itself heard. Put the queenless section on the original site. Split the other half again and sort out the queenless lot and return to the main position. Leave the others to lose the flying bees, back to the original site, and then sort out the queen on the remaining frames. Then unite with your new queen.

Not simple but with decreasing numbers of flying bees, things should get easier. You could move the hive and replace it with a body, with some comb, to accept flying bees before you go into it.

Regards, RAB

 

[Stephen H.]

I think that I would be inclined to use the petrol if they are that bad.no point in just dumping the queen over a hedge,I would be worried what may happen if she /they end up in a garden or near children.

 

[Black Comb]

I'v been through the same and I know how you feel.
My nasty lot swarmed when I was on holiday and the new queen has only just started laying. Don't forget that the old bees live for 6 weeks so you need to wait for the new queens progeny to become the colony.

 

[colmax21]

Hi Zaphod,
I feel so sorry for you but I must thank you for your humour, you have brought tears to my eyes with laughter, you came across so funny.

Oliver 90 owner gave you good advice,
thanks and enjoy,
Colin.

 

[susbees]

More understanding from here...although a bit less if you did use the old queen's daughter...

...our bad hive was so bad (and close to two footpaths and a lane in that they followed and stung at a distance) that we chickened out and swapped with someone with a reformatory for evil bees.

Put on the three layers and follow the divide and conquer instructions. But don't let them raise a queen themselves.

 

[margob99]

I know exactly how you feel, Zaphod! I have exactly the same situation - with the old queen in the swarm hive leading a lovely calm gentle colony, and the new young hive an absolute monstrosity. They stung me on the bum today, through 2 layers of jeans. I too am afraid to go near them.

However, upon removing a super for honey extraction today, I believe I may have found a possible cause.

Queen stuck on the wrong side of the QX no doubt through my own klutzy hive inspections.

I wonder if things will calm down from now on ...

 

[merylvingien]

I wouldnt tolerate that, as i had the exact same problem not so long ago!

The solution is: Suit up so you are well protected. Get a backpack sprayer or garden type sprayer. Pop some fairy liquid in, and then fill sprayer right up.

Have a spare brood box, then open your hive and watch them go mental. Take each frame out and shake the bees violently back into the box. Do this with each frame and then place the beeless frames into the new box.

When you have no frames left in the box, spray them and any bees that are flying about the hive.

Takes 15 mins and you will get the good majority of them. You have saved your frames and wax.

 

[Roy S]

When I've come across colonies like that, I've kitted myself up in as many layers as it takes to make myself safe, then picked up the bad colony and moved it at least 30- 40 feet away(preferably as far as you can comfortably take it!!!), leaving a new floor,brood body, cover board and roof on the site it used to occupy (a complete new hive basically)Go away have a cup of tea and leave them to calm down.

When you go back to them there should mainly be young non flying bees left in the old colony. I use a weak sugar solution to spray any that start making a nusiance of themselves instead of smoke, this tends to calm them down and doesnt drive the queen down to the bottom of the brood box either.
You'll find its much easier to find the queen in this situation, and once found she can be dispatched and replaced with a bought in queen or a locally produced one of known temper. Once you've done this the lot can be reunited back on the old site with the flying bees again.

If you use a frame of eggs from your good colony you still run the risk of the drones from the bad colony passing on their temper to the offspring of the new virgin queen when she mates. So until you have good tempered bees throughout your apiary, I'd go for a bought in queen of known temper.

Divide and conquer is definately the way to get the job done in these situations

 

[Busy Bee]

What you can do before you open the hive is move it 50 yards away put floor and empty BB on the old site.

Go to the old hive and lift the lid, you will find most of the foragers will return to the old site and you can then go through the BB with less bees in it. When you find your queen you can then cage her or exterminate her. Re-place the old hive back to its original place.

Very aggressive bees can be very difficult to re-queen and if re-queened I found it takes a few cycles of new bees before the wickedness subsides.

FAILING ANY OF THE ABOVE THREAT THEM LIKE THEY HAVE A.F.B.

Busy Bee

 

[Midland Beek]

Sometimes it is just a case of perservering and looking for the queen. Kill her straight away and re-queen.

I am assuming they have honey. Smoke doesn't work with a colony that cannot fill up with honey.

 

[Bcrazy]

on most of the advice given the members say REQueen thats OK but how does one requeen a snootty colony.
Its not a case of just popping the new queen in the hive is it? Or is it?
Please tell me.

 

[Zaphod]

Thank you to everyone for your sound advice. Nope, I didn't re-queen with the devil's daughter - I tried re-queening with one of gentle stock from my local beekeepers club. She's either been destroyed or they've turned her to the darkside.

I'll try the divide and conquer technique first. Good idea.

Failing that I'll take the Fairy Liquid path ... "For hands that judicious..."

Z

 

[Bcrazy]

re-queening with one of gentle stock from my local beekeepers club. She's either been destroyed or they've turned her to the darkside.

My point exactly its not just a case of popping the new queen into the hive and hoping for the best.

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

I had a truly deliquent hive recently, which took to chasing me dozens of yards. Eventually had to move my entire apiary to another, more remote site. Checked them last weekend, and they were as sweet as honey. Hope they weren't just having an off-day!

 

[rich]

Quite agree with Bcrazy, I attempted re-queening a nasty colony I had (in fact Bcrazy was there at the time) I left her closed up in a butlers cage for 3 days, all looked ok when I checked before putting the candy in the open end. Went back 7 days later, nope no eggs, checked 10 days later still nothing, nor any sign of her either.
Then tried a ripe queen cell, they just built comb all over the cell so she couldn't emerge.
Might as well have put a frame of eggs in from a good colony, and let them made their own queen.
So on to plan C, there on the move to be united with a queen right colony.

Rich

 

[Adam]

Go away have a cup of tea and leave them to calm down.

Another fairly well documented method, which I was discussing with a Master Beekeeper who has had personal experience of trying it is to violently shake the box. He says when you severely jolt it many times (i.e. by kicking it), they bacome calmer (I know, you'd expect them to come pouring out) but apparently it's not the case. The same as nasty colonies that get moved by car (to an out-apiary say) and upon arrival can be inspected normally. It must be some sort of reaction to the vibration I guess.

Adam

 

[susbees]

Or induce narcosis with dried giant puffball (a waste of excellent eating I might add, but there are always trimmings....). Documented as short-term knockdown effect.

 

[Bcrazy]

He says when you severely jolt it many times (i.e. by kicking it), they bacome calmer (I know, you'd expect them to come pouring out) but apparently it's not the case.

Yes agree as I have seen it done and its the similar effect that spraying the bees in a basin and shaking them into a corner for pouring into a mini nuc ect. the effect of shaking and wetting reduces the bees to near immobility (I did say near) and they are easy to handle after that.

Mo

 

[roche]

I heard of an old beekeeper who routinely knocked 3 or so times on the hive before opening. I wonder if that was related to the kicking and vibration theories...