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Boston Bees 

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I am just grateful we aren't in the EU vaccine program! What a shambles.

[Runs for cover]
 

Murox 

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Would it surprise you to learn that many/most of the failings of the EU that the UK left europe for, are in fact the same things that most EU states and peoples also dislike and want to modify.
 

ShinySideUp 

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Would it surprise you to learn that many/most of the failings of the EU that the UK left europe for, are in fact the same things that most EU states and peoples also dislike and want to modify.
But the powers-that-be in the Commission in The Berlaymont, their EU office building in Brussels, will never allow it.
 

Nige.Coll 

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Wow it's like a remain campaign meeting in here lol.
We are out, time to get used to it. it will all settle down soon it's only been a fortnight.
Look on the bright side the EU has got some border force people in designer uniforms out of it.
Our border force is as it has been for ages, useless unless it's taking fags of tourists.
 

ShinySideUp 

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I feel the need to be enlightened.
There are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of pages on the internet devoted to listing the advantages and disadvantages of being in/out of the EU. You can be enlightened or unenlightened to your hearts content. Here is one of them:

List of the Disadvantages of the European Union
1. It is easier to cross borders in Europe today because of the EU.
The Schengen Visa might make it easier for the average person to travel throughout Europe and its controlled territories, but it can also become a security nightmare. Because there are fewer travel restrictions in place, the number of people who can make their way across a border without documentation or with a false ID continues to rise. Between 2014-2018, the number of attacks classified as terrorism increased from two per year to over 30.

The number of deaths due to terrorist attacks is actually going down despite the increase of their prevalence, but the arrests of suspected criminals in this field has nearly doubled during that same period. There are times when having tight border security can be an advantage, especially if you are a small country.

2. There are still many problems with division in Europe despite the EU.
There are fewer countries going to war with each other in Europe thanks to the presence of the EU, but that has not stopped a rise of nationalism, fascism, and other problematic government structures over the years. There are many different cultures and ethnicities on the continent which see things differently, and it is not always possible to reconcile their differences. Not only is there a clear divide between the east and the west, but there are divisions of size to consider as well.

You can see changes in freedom, access by the press, educational curriculum, and the judicial systems all slowly favoring more of the extreme views instead of the centrist notions that the EU was initially founded on. The EU-28 requires specific government structures to limit this disadvantage, but there are still 17 countries who don’t need to follow by those rules.

3. The EU can suffer from a lack of transparency at times.
One of the unique aspects of the EU’s structure is the fact that it holds transnational elections to staff its parliament. The number of representatives that each country receives works in a similar way to what each state receives in the House of Representatives in the United States, but without the same caps in place. That means everyone can express their opinion, but it is the larger countries that can typically sway the politics in the region.
Malta is an excellent example of this disadvantage, as they only receive 6 representatives in the EU parliament. Germany gets to send 90 more people to vote on key issues for the continent. Since many of these debates don’t happen in public, there can be an overall lack of transparency in Europe that makes people wonder what is going on.

4. European countries must pay to play in the EU.
There are numerous economic advantages to consider when joining the European Union, but each country must have a robust financial foundation available to participate. Only 2% of the funding that the EU receives comes from outside sources, which means the member nations are responsible for paying for the rest. When you add in the costs of NATO to that package, each nation must pay several billion dollars each year just to participate in this governing structure.

There are economic returns to consider as well, but the reason why the UK considered Brexit in the first place is because some years would create a loss of over $4 billion to their local economy.

5. The EU favours the larger countries at the expense of the smaller.
When you look at the financial data from 2010-2016 for the EU-28, Germany and the Netherlands are the clear winners. The International Monetary Fund shows that per capital GDP in these nations rose by 19% and 14% respectively. When you look at some of the smaller countries, Portugal saw its rates rise by 10%, while Greece saw it decline by 7% over the same period. Even Italy struggled with a 6% gain.

This issue creates a stench of double standards when it comes to the enforcement of the growth and stability pact that has been in place since 1997. Budget deficits should be no higher than 3% of GDP and national debt is supposed to be under 60% of GDP. By applying the rules differently, smaller nations like Ireland in the Eurozone can struggle to stay competitive.

6. Europe’s taxation structure doesn’t encourage the development of new businesses.
One of the most significant problems for the European Union is that its economic model is aging right alongside its population. There are numerous world-class companies there, but none of them were created in the past 25 years. Volvo and Siemens are still going strong, but there is no EU answer to Facebook, Amazon, or Google. You could even throw Walmart into that mix as well.
The idea of the euro was to create a currency that would help a single market work with greater efficiency. That would stimulate economic growth – but that never happened. Instead of getting better, most of the Eurozone countries are experiencing declines in their economic prospects. Italy is experiencing its fifth recession in 2019 in the past 20 years.

Source: FutureofWorking.com This site also lists advantages of being in the EU.
 

HughMann 

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1. It is easier to cross borders in Europe today because of the EU.
[The Schengen Visa ...............
UK was never part of Schengen

2. There are still many problems with division in Europe despite the EU.
There are fewer countries going to war with each other in Europe thanks to the presence of the EU, but that has not stopped a rise of nationalism, fascism, and other problematic government structures over the years. There are many different cultures and ethnicities on the continent which see things differently, and it is not always possible to reconcile their differences. Not only is there a clear divide between the east and the west, but there are divisions of size to consider as well.

You can see changes in freedom, access by the press, educational curriculum, and the judicial systems all slowly favoring more of the extreme views instead of the centrist notions that the EU was initially founded on. The EU-28 requires specific government structures to limit this disadvantage, but there are still 17 countries who don’t need to follow by those rules.
And the right wing WIN if we encourage nationalism - which brexit encourages.
3. The EU can suffer from a lack of transparency at times.


Not a patch on the lack of transparency this government is getting away with!!


4. European countries must pay to play in the EU.


The UK paid far less than its share after Thatcher got one hell of a discount for us.

5. The EU favours the larger countries at the expense of the smaller.


Which the UK was


6. Europe’s taxation structure doesn’t encourage the development of new businesses.


Strange that now UK has left it is the small businesses that cant trade with eachother due to all the extra red tape
 

Karol 

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There are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of pages on the internet devoted to listing the advantages <snip> of being <snip>/out of the EU. <snip>
You haven't helped. All of the things you describe are ethereal. What I need help with is an understanding of what the advantages are to the average UK citizen of not being in the EU?
 

benjamind 

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When are we leaving Westminster? Bunch of unelected hangers on (Cummings), awarding contracts to best friends with no ability to deliver (non-existent ferries, faulty PPE) and spending nearly £1m on repainting military jet because de Pfeffel didn’t like the colour?

Money better spent on NHS? Decent meals for kids?

Shouldn’t we take back control from the Westminster gravy train?
 

Boston Bees 

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You haven't helped. All of the things you describe are ethereal. What I need help with is an understanding of what the advantages are to the average UK citizen of not being in the EU?
It allowed us to not join the EU's vaccine programme. This allowed us to order plenty of vaccines from various suppliers which is one of the reasons our vaccination programme is so far ahead of the EU's

That seems pretty concrete to me - it will save actual lives, rather than just inconveniencing shipments of goods, for example.

View the howls of outrage currently directed at Macron, Merkel etc for the lack of vaccines on order compared to the size of the population. The EU relied on the [French] Sanofi vaccine coming through (it is alleged Macron insisted on this), and .... it didn't.

BioNTech criticises EU failure to order enough Covid vaccine | Coronavirus | The Guardian

The EU has botched its vaccination programme | The Spectator

And for those who may say "We could have done that anyway even as EU members", I would just point out that no EU country has, and those that tried to order extra vaccines for themselves, on top of the Joint Programme, were slapped down by the EU Commission and told they couldn't. Finally, in recent days, Germany has broken ranks and belatedly ordered more for its own citizens, leaving the whole thing in a complete mess and justifying it by saying that the new orders they were placing would only be filled once the EU's Joint Programme had been (ignoring the fact that the EU Joint Programme hasn't ordered nearly enough).

Sometimes there are advantages in a country being able to act independently without having to wait for 27 others to agree on something. Other major countries around the world would just take this freedom for granted
 
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Murox 

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But the powers-that-be in the Commission in The Berlaymont, their EU office building in Brussels, will never allow it.
You are out of touch a little. Discussions were ongoing when returned to UK 4 years ago - jaw jaw jaw does take a very long time :)
 

Murox 

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You haven't helped. All of the things you describe are ethereal. What I need help with is an understanding of what the advantages are to the average UK citizen of not being in the EU?
Don't think there are any. Its quite clear from governmental responses (or lack of) that only the fatter cats will become obese. Meanwhile very few give second thought to the thousands of people lying in the snow along the borders of europe.
 

mbc 

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Please, pretty please, may I respectfully ask for no re-runs of Leave vs Remain again.
Once in my lifetime was enough...
I think it's pretty clear that if there were a rerun tomorrow it wouldbe a landslide for remain, unquestionably.
This begs the question of how so many were duped the first time around, by whom and is there criminality involved.
I note we're two weeks in and the nhs is still waiting for the first instalment of £350,000,000 a week extra funding promised on the side of a big red bus.
 

Suzi 

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Dont vote for anything , spend the day digging your flower/veg beds over Instead. Be suspicious of any man knocking your door for a vote ,he means to extract more money from you in the future.
Don't vote for anything and don't be surprised when the decision is taken out of your hands!

Always vote otherwise you have no right to an opinion on the consequences!
 

Apple 

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This wil
I think it's pretty clear that if there were a rerun tomorrow it wouldbe a landslide for remain, unquestionably.
This begs the question of how so many were duped the first time around, by whom and is there criminality involved.
I note we're two weeks in and the nhs is still waiting for the first instalment of £350,000,000 a week extra funding promised on the side of a big red bus.
lt will not happen until Boris the Bumbling Baffoon (BBB) is removed from office.
Some think that during these COVID times we should have declared war on the Wuhan Chinese Pox (WCP) and its South African and Brazilian variants... and formed an emergency coalition government.... not left the EU to be run for German Oligarchs... but allied with them to resolve what has become WW3......
divided we shall fall etc etc etc..... ( that's an acronym for et cettera Latin or Greek or some ancient unspeakable tongue for and so on!)

Yeghes da
 
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