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Erichalfbee 

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I’ve just lit mine
 

pargyle 

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Come on you really can’t credit the EU for peace in Europe and no serious historians do. The EU was formed in 93 the Berlin Wall fell in 89. When ethnic cleansing was going on in Kosovo in 98 it was the US and Uk under NATO that led and went in not the EU. You could more logically argue it was perhaps the common market in 57 that’s brought more prosperity and stopped the Germans walking into France when the notion took them.
There are people of a certain age that merge the Common Market and the European Union into one entity - in fairness .. the Common Market did morph into the EU.

I think that the common market did play some part in bringing peace and prosperity to countries in Europe that were still recovering from the aftermath of WW2 .. it created a dialogue between France and Germany and its neighbours, West Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. These countries were also fearful of more of the historic conflict between France and Germany - there was also the looming dominance of the Soviet Block. I'm old enough to remember the resistance from De Gaulle to the UK joining the club .. His "Non Non" resonated for years after we joined .... and the ensuing dialogue didn't see us join until Ted Heath took us in 1972. I think we benefitted from the Common Market .. it was a much less cumbersome arrangement than what followed and I think we would probably have still been within the EU if the original trade objectives that were established in the Common Market had remained the prime focus of the EU.

Unfortunately, the insistence and dominance of France and Germany within mainland Europe and the fact that the weaker countries of Europe that were allowed to join led to an ever increasing creation of an arch state of Europe. This was the antithesis of what many people wanted from a close relationship with our Friends in Europe. It is something that suits France and Germany who are now the dominant force in the EU and Germany, of course, holds the purse strings. It will be interesting to see how things develop in Europe over the next few years and whether our leaving brings the EU closer together or leads to more dissention (and there is already dissention in some countries who feel they are being dictated to by the EU).

As I've said, I voted to stay in on the basis I felt we would be better off in economic and social terms and better off in it and bringing something to the table rather than being out with no further influence ... but there were aspects of the EU that I felt were not in our best interests and certainly there will be even more centralisation coming along in the future for Europe now that we are not a moderating influence on the two big players - France and Germany. I think that the average voter saw this writing on the wall and were spooked ... I don't subscribe to the belief that the voting public were hoodwinked ... I think there was a genuine fear of the direction the EU was (and will be) travelling in.

How we will fare in the future will be dependent upon whether we are able to change; it will need a creative Government and a forward looking population and it may take some years. At present it is difficult to see anything in either of the two main parties that gives me confidence that the type of country we need to be to prosper in the future is on the horizon.
 
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Ian123 

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There are people of a certain age that merge the Common Market and the European Union into one entity - in fairness .. the Common Market did morph into the EU.

I think that the common market did play some part in bringing peace and prosperity to countries in Europe that were still recovering from the aftermath of WW2 .. it created a dialogue between France and Germany and its neighbours, West Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. These countries were also fearful of more of the historic conflict between France and Germany - there was also the looming dominance of the Soviet Block. I'm old enough to remember the resistance from De Gaulle to the UK joining the club .. His "Non Non" resonated for years after we joined .... and the ensuing dialogue didn't see us join until Ted Heath took us in 1972. I think we benefitted from the Common Market .. it was a much less cumbersome arrangement than what followed and I think we would probably have still been within the EU if the original trade objectives that were established in the Common Market had remained the prime focus of the EU.

Unfortunately, the insistence and dominance of France and Germany within mainland Europe and the fact that the weaker countries of Europe that were allowed to join led to an ever increasing creation of an arch state of Europe. This was the antithesis of what many people wanted from a close relationship with our Friends in Europe. It is something that suits France and Germany who are now the dominant force in the EU and Germany, of course, holds the purse strings. It will be interesting to see how things develop in Europe over the next few years and whether our leaving brings the EU closer together or leads to more dissention (and there is already dissention in some countries who feel they are being dictated to by the EU).

As I've said, I voted to stay in on the basis I felt we would be better off in economic and social terms and better off in it and bringing something to the table rather than being out with no further influence ... but there were aspects of the EU that I felt were not in our best interests and certainly there will be even more centralisation coming along in the future for Europe now that we are not a moderating influence on the two big players - France and Germany. I think that the average voter saw this writing on the wall and were spooked ... I don't subscribe to the belief that the voting public were hoodwinked ... I think there was a genuine fear of the direction the EU was (and will be) travelling in.

How we will fare in the future will be dependent upon whether we are able to change; it will need a creative Government and a forward looking population and it may take some years. At present it is difficult to see anything in either of the two main parties that gives me confidence that the type of country we need to be to prosper in the future is on the horizon.
Now that’s a proper post!.....De Gaulle lost me when he pretended to liberate Paris😉
 
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domino 

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Anyone who thinks any country/trading bloc/union of countries can do no wrong is seriously naive or deluded.
There does seem to be an EU derangement syndrome even after we left it. People are stalking it like an ex-girlfriend on facebook.

Take the latest one:

stalker - the EU is threatening to stop the export of the vaccine to the UK
normal person - erm .... its made in the UK
stalker - the EU threaten to steal vaccine from the UK

A nonsense story by the way that completely sidelines the knock it out of the park work the NHS is doing vaccinating people in the UK, I've got mine next week.

I'm wondering how long it'll take before people who say they don't like the EU to stop moaning about the EU. Any negatives from Brexit are the UK governments fault they cut the deal with the EU. Job done, time to start selling cheese to Japan.
 

Angularity 

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There is still genocide being quietly carried out in some parts of the world .. we should hope and entreat that the collective nations of the world will be prepared to stand up to those countries who perpertrate these crimes against humanity on sections of their population.
Let us also remember the others who were killed simply because of who they were; the Roma, the Sinti, the gays and all the others. We’re pre-occupied now, but let’s also try to remember the people who are being persecuted by the Chinese communists. I don’t know what we as individuals can do to stop this, but we need our leaders to lead.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Too many - but not nearly enough
time to start selling cheese to Japan.
I processed exports for a while when working in Cardiff Customs, we used to export a heck of a lot of 'pizza cheese' and toppings to the Windward isles
As well as pigs tails and chicken feet!
 

Karol 

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<snip>,

but let’s also try to remember the people who are being persecuted by the Chinese communists. I don’t know what we as individuals can do to stop this, but we need our leaders to lead.
It's called having critical mass which in our case has just shrunk. Turning our back on the EU means facing China and other countries who also have poor civil rights records.
 

Boston Bees 

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Karol 

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At taste of Sovereign freedom:


Interesting that Australia credits the EU for 'persuading' China to allow an investigation into the origins of the Covid pandemic.

Can't see the UK applying swinging tariffs against China to stop practices such as steel dumping.
 

Erichalfbee 

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My mum is my candle. She survived the Nazi holocaust.....just. My uncle who was two at the time did not.
Yes I can see that. My mother was torn from her family to work for the German army at sixteen and liberated by the American army and eventually came to England as a refugee. My father escaped prison and worse as a Polish airforce pilot by flying to France then joining the RAF.
 

Arfermo 

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I have always had the feeling that Germany has manged to achieve by stealth what Hitler failed to achieve. Their dominance has arisen to a large extent from the fact imho that after we and our allies had bombed their productive industry to scrap metal, the Americans and their money were able to come along and finance the rebuilding of brand new factories and machinery in Germany so that the crap industrial plant we were still toiling with post-war couldn't compete. Reason - US gratitude for getting immigrant and captured German scientists to get rockets to the bloody moon? We were the losers in or out of the EU, having failed to resist the Common Market morphing into the United (?) States of Europe all the while giving away our Empire. Am happy about giving freedom to our slaves but not with the EU as it has become.
 

Ogston Bee Farm 

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Hi
Looking to purchase either 3 reasonably priced Nucs or we dont really need the nuc but frames of bees .I am happy to travel a bit ( when we can ) to pick these up and pop them into our national brood boxes . Will be going on to some land in a forest near farmers fields that someone has kindly agreed we can use .Would want them around end of march /April time if thats possible .
Based near Chesterfield, North Derbyshire: We have a small number of overwintered nucs which are primarily there to make up for our own predicted losses and also for a few increases (all of our surplus nucs are already sold).
However if losses turn out to be less than our contingency covers, then I would be happy to supply to you.
Failing that, we will have spring/summer nucs available from June onwards. Home - Ogston Bee Farm
Losses are looking promising so far though. Take a look at us here
 

Angularity 

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If you are not a subscriber to the FT the link just takes you to the "PAY WALL".
Try this:

china-deal-damages-eus-human-rights-credibility-meps-to-say

Edited to add...

There does seem to be an EU derangement syndrome even after we left it. People are stalking it like an ex-girlfriend on facebook.

Take the latest one:

stalker - the EU is threatening to stop the export of the vaccine to the UK
normal person - erm .... its made in the UK
stalker - the EU threaten to steal vaccine from the UK

A nonsense story by the way that completely sidelines the knock it out of the park work the NHS is doing vaccinating people in the UK, I've got mine next week.

I'm not sure it is a nonsense story.

“People in the United Kingdom are vaccinated with a very good vaccine produced in Europe, supported by European money,” said Peter Liese, a German MEP in Angela Merkel’s CDU party, referring to the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.

“If there is anyone thinking that European citizens would accept that we give this high quality vaccine to the United Kingdom and would accept to be treated as second class by a UK-based company, I think the only consequence can be to immediately stop the export of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine. And then we are in the middle of a trade war. So the company and the UK better think twice.”
 
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