Estimating colony from foragers

[cwinte]

My 1 hive was late getting queen-right, last October, and went into the Winter with small brood and I was guessing it was 50/50 if they'd make it.
I've left them alone just examining mite drop and vaping a few times.
I figure if I open up there's little I can do to help, so leave bee.

During mid-late Feb good wether here in Kent I was feeling fairly good about the forager numbers and 20-30% of incoming forage being pollen. Last week it seemed there were less foragers than I'd like so I did a few counts. In or out flights were clumpy but typically I saw 10-12 foragers arriving per minute and that seemed fairly consistent.

Does that give any idea of the number of foragers in total? Amount of brood would be unknown but I am assuming not huge, but some... The cappings zone on the BB was only tennis ball size.

Now I think there are fewer, about half as many, and today feels sort of comparable weather. Not a good sign I suspect though I can hope there is a lot of (some!) new brood about to emerge and start training up etc. When would you expect to see new bees (in Kent) or do you have any already?

There is Neopoll available to them but they have taken very little, 10-20gr a week or less and only 1 -3 bees on it ever. A bit surprised about that but I did leave them plenty of honey in top super (they had made comb and stores layout rather wild and messy while queen-less and I decided to leave them to it, no excluder).

Since there is little more I can do to help I'm just in look & learn mode, and hoping they pick back up soon...
Any thoughts and advice?

 

[Finman]

.
Only way to estimate size of the colony is to open the roof and look, how many frames bees occupy.

There is no idea to count foragers.

You can discribe the size of colony to others if you tell the size of brood area or occupied frames.

 

[PaulCarroll]

I live in Kent and last week was abnormal in terms of weather and of course saw bees fetching pollen in bucket loads across all my colonies. The temptation was of course to have a peek but common sense got the better of me after all it is still winter!! I satisfied that seeing pollen going into the hive is evidence that all is well and that as long as they have sufficient stores then later this month/early April I will explore further. The only other thing you could do to try to help build up is to feed them but the danger is we have a cold spell and the build up outstrips the ability of the colony to look after brood or you encourage an early swarm. I would only feed if you have oil seed rape which you wish to use for an early honey crop. Otherwise leave the bees to it for now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wingy]

Phone on video & place on floor under hive assuming you have OMF it will give an idea how many frames are occupied but won’t show if brood or stores

 

[mike99]

Phone on video & place on floor under hive assuming you have OMF it will give an idea how many frames are occupied but won’t show if brood or stores

Now that is an excellent suggestion.

 

[Stiffy]

My 1 hive was late getting queen-right, last October, and went into the Winter with small brood and I was guessing it was 50/50 if they'd make it.
I've left them alone just examining mite drop and vaping a few times.
I figure if I open up there's little I can do to help, so leave bee.

During mid-late Feb good wether here in Kent I was feeling fairly good about the forager numbers and 20-30% of incoming forage being pollen. Last week it seemed there were less foragers than I'd like so I did a few counts. In or out flights were clumpy but typically I saw 10-12 foragers arriving per minute and that seemed fairly consistent.

Does that give any idea of the number of foragers in total? Amount of brood would be unknown but I am assuming not huge, but some... The cappings zone on the BB was only tennis ball size.

Now I think there are fewer, about half as many, and today feels sort of comparable weather. Not a good sign I suspect though I can hope there is a lot of (some!) new brood about to emerge and start training up etc. When would you expect to see new bees (in Kent) or do you have any already?

There is Neopoll available to them but they have taken very little, 10-20gr a week or less and only 1 -3 bees on it ever. A bit surprised about that but I did leave them plenty of honey in top super (they had made comb and stores layout rather wild and messy while queen-less and I decided to leave them to it, no excluder).

Since there is little more I can do to help I'm just in look & learn mode, and hoping they pick back up soon...
Any thoughts and advice?

Sounds to me as if you have done a good job and all you can to get them through. I would suggest that seeing a few foragers out and about is also a good sign but would recommend you sit on your hands for a few weeks. Messing with them now will do more harm than good and if they have made it through I am sure they will keep you busy when it warms up.
S

 

[Poly Hive]

Not sure the phone is going to help if there is still a super on they are going to be up there no?

PH

 

[birdsandbees]

Applying some logic to this scenario, a rush of activity bringing in pollen followed by reduced numbers of flying bees, could this not be an indication of increased brood rearing? more bees staying in to tend brood and keep it warm, less brood required less bees to look after it.

 

[Curly green fingers]

I wanted to ask what's your inspection board telling you brood cappings etc .
Alot of mine are in the top box it's warmer up there .

 

[masterBK]

If you look at the correx insert under a mesh floor the wax debris from the cappings tells you how many seams of bees present

 

[Wingy]

Not sure the phone is going to help if there is still a super on they are going to be up there no?

PH

Mine are Langstroth brood & half and over last week appear to be covering all frames visible from OMF and through crown board, placed inspection tray in for 24 hours to check varroa situation and the brood debris appeared across 7 frames, stores debris at both ends. Watching the amount of bees orienteering they have completed at least 1 full brood cycle & I've had to remove the reduced entrance block as well.

 

[Curly green fingers]

If you look at the correx insert under a mesh floor the wax debris from the cappings tells you how many seams of bees present

Nice picture of brood cappings and store cappings
M B so there was six frames of emerged brood that hives looking good I bet.
Almost Severn frames!

 

[Poly Hive]

They have been described as weak if not critically so Wingy.

See the first post by the OP.

PH

 

[Tom Jay]

We all have different approaches. Mine verges on the 'leave well alone' end of the spectrum. I am surprised you have done more than one vape on a critically small colony. OK it gets the varroa but vaping is a serious challenge to the bees too. Beyond a judgement as to whether they need fondant or not, I'd say this is the month to leave them alone and find out if they and their queen are viable come first inspection once the flowering red currant is in full sway. That's my humble opinion on this.

 

[Eyeman]

If you look at the correx insert under a mesh floor the wax debris from the cappings tells you how many seams of bees present

Or go one step further and use the debris as a guide to how the brood next expands and contracts over winter. Mine suggests there is minimal 'brood capping/uncapping' in early to mid Jan.

 

[Curly green fingers]

Or go one step further and use the debris as a guide to how the brood next expands and contracts over winter. Mine suggests there is minimal 'brood capping/uncapping' in early to mid Jan.

View attachment 16597

And that goes to show the contrast of two colony's also , we're they the same sort of size going into winter Eyeman ?

 

[iann41]

that is a top idea Eyeman.

do you use any special software?

I must remember to use the camera on my mobile phone more.

 

[SDM]

. I am surprised you have done more than one vape on a critically small colony. OK it gets the varroa but vaping is a serious challenge to the bees too. .

What challenge ?

 

[Eyeman]

And that goes to show the contrast of two colony's also , we're they the same sort of size going into winter Eyeman ?

Both were a similar strength. They are both in poly 14x12's. The bottom colony appears to be building up faster at this stage. Will be continuing to monitor them.

 

[Eyeman]

that is a top idea Eyeman.

do you use any special software?

I must remember to use the camera on my mobile phone more.

Hi
I use the pics from my iPhone and montage them in PowerPoint. It's part of a presentation. I normally just write down the number of seams of debris. The debris is affected by what's going on in the hive, the length of time the board is under the OMF and who's around eating/removing the droppings. The boards in last 2 pics were left in for a lot longer.