Epi-Pen.

[Dishmop]

This is cut from a local government document...


Anaphylactic shock is very rare, but if it does happen, very quick and calm procedure is essential.
Anaphylactic shock results from a sudden drop in blood pressure. The observable symptoms include the rapid onset of tingling of the lips, dizziness, nausea, vomiting and collapse. A common remedy among beekeepers is an Epi-pen, delivering a dose of adrenaline but this should NEVER be administered by another person since unnecessary adrenaline can cause death.


They used capitals for "never" not me.

 

[Poly Hive]

In other words the decision is the victims if they are fit enough to do it.

PH

 

[Silly Bee]

Bit of a chestnut this one.

My m8 has an epi-pen, and if he needed a jab, or somebody who I thought needed it, then I'd jab them.

There is the "Good Samaritan" clause if you are worried about jabbing.

 

[madasafish]

So lets see: the local council recommend you never help someone who needs help and is unconscious..?

 

[region2]

On your head be it - I'd be asking the 999 operative for their advice before I do it. Good samaritan 'law' does not protect against negligence!

R2

 

[MandF]

On your head be it - I'd be asking the 999 operative for their advice before I do it. Good samaritan 'law' does not protect against negligence!

R2

it does in countries like france. you could be prosecuted for not helping!

 

[region2]

...missed my point - samaritan law does not protect again negligence but you are obliged to help in France - do something negligent and expect to be sued anywhere in the world...

R2

 

[thorn]

...missed my point - samaritan law does not protect again negligence but you are obliged to help in France - do something negligent and expect to be sued anywhere in the world...

R2

Yet more stuff and nonsense from someone with no knowledge of the law of negligence. Stop taking American TV shows as a statement of the legal position in England.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

I think that the Councils advice is along the lines of much of local and national government which plays safe and allows no risk at all.

Which is why you have seven fire engines and 30 firemen standing on the bank of a river watching a bird drown in a net until the local gamekeeper comes along and wades out into the 'knee' deep water and rescues it.
Or the two police constables who stood on the river bank where someone had just drowned as they were not 'water rescue trained'.

Personally I think I would follow the Hipocratic Oath and 'do not harm' 'but help your fellow wo/man' and use the epi-pen if they could not.

The Court is not going to prosecute you for a reasonable rescue attempt and if they sue then I am covered by my public liability insurance.

I would rather stand before my Maker and say I saved a life than not and get a letter of thanks from some insurance company.

 

[rockdoc]

 

[oliver90owner]

but this should NEVER be administered by another person since unnecessary adrenaline can cause death.

Now then, I wonder why I used to receive regular instruction on how to use an epi-pen even though, by then, I was no longer qualified as a first aider and have never carried an epi-pen for myself?

Have they changed the rules? Perhaps they have, but I think not. It is just instructions for idi ot Joe public who are unable to properly assess the risks. The non-thinkers who just assume that if someone is carrying an epi-pen it must be the right time to use it.

I have seen enough change over the years. Tourniquets were still in vogue when I did my early first aid certificates. Mouth to mouth resuscitation was a fairly new addition alongside the Holger Neilson method (and others) at that time.

 

[Silly Bee]

On your head be it - I'd be asking the 999 operative for their advice before I do it. Good samaritan 'law' does not protect against negligence!

R2

In the middle of a field, no 'phone, just an epi-pen and a gasping wo/man.

Yeah, it's a no brainer.

 

[Shabro]

If I remember correctly , it is preferrable to assist the person prescribed the epipen - such as hold it up and apply pressure with their hand. If you can correctly identify anaphylaxis and they are unable to do it , I cant see any court of law convicting you for saving someones life.
A big no-no is using an epipen on someone who hasnt been prescribed it, even if they usually carry their own.

 

[MandF]

...missed my point - samaritan law does not protect again negligence but you are obliged to help in France - do something negligent and expect to be sued anywhere in the world...

R2

We had this discussion previously about the use of epipens, and discussed the law of negligence.

You will not be sued by anyone for trying to save a dying persons life.

If anyone thinks different, post up the case law.

It is like saying that one shouldnt throw a drowning person a lifebouy, just in case you hit them on the head with it and knock them unconscious.

But ultimately, it comes down to our individual conscience - if I see someone dying and can do something about it, I will do so. It wouldnt even occur to me to not help because I might get sued myself, even if that were a possibility.

 

[MandF]

A big no-no is using an epipen on someone who hasnt been prescribed it, even if they usually carry their own.

Really? Evidence? I wasnt aware that each epipen carries a different personalised adrenaline dose.

If someone was with you, got stung by something, their throat started swelling and they told you they didnt have their epipen, and begged you to use yours on them before they died, you would refuse and watch them suffocate to death?

 

[MandF]

When just doing a google search to find evidence of anyone actually dying from the misuse of an epi-pen (and failing), I note that lots of schools carry epi-pens. Not on behalf of specific children, but for general emergency use.

Check out this post, dated Jan 2012, where an American (good old litigious America!) mother is lobbying her state to also stock epi-pens for general use.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/cvillefoodallergy/message/90

 

[Dishmop]

The said same article then goes on to tell you to:-

Loosen tight clothing at the waist and neck.

Might take some explaining.

 

[victor meldrew]

Really? Evidence? I wasnt aware that each epipen carries a different personalised adrenaline dose.

If someone was with you, got stung by something, their throat started swelling and they told you they didnt have their epipen, and begged you to use yours on them before they died, you would refuse and watch them suffocate to death?

You would if you were a policeman or a fireman under orders not to
VM

 

[Dishmop]

You would if you were a policeman or a fireman under orders not to

could you live with it tho?

Is that just a condition of employment tho or would you be prosecuted?

 

[alanf]

Most councils and governmemt at all levels are very risk averse. They are usually more afraid of being sued than the potential bad publicity of standing aside.

Bear in mind that epipens are not prescription only everywhere; in Canada you can buy them over the pharmacy counter. Practically, it's up to any individual to assess what they can do in the absence of professional advice or help. I'd be happy that most most on here would be capable of making a reasonable decision, just as much here in the UK as in Canada.