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Efficiency of sugar dusting

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Finman 

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Turkey 2005 http://www.ibra.org.uk/articles/20080612_93

Our technique requires isolating a colony?s adult bee population in a detachable box prior to powdered sugar application.

we forced adult bees into the bee box where they were subsequently dusted with 225 g powdered sugar. Adult honey bee populations treated in this manner dropped 77 of their mites. 28 cases.

***********************

Finman: Comparing to other modern treatment efficacy is too low. And 80% are under brood cappings.
 

Polyanwood 

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Useful to think about the maths Finman. It makes me think that if we are going to do icing sugar treatments, we need to do it every week to have any effect. I wonder if the varroa on the bees do more harm than the ones in the brood? If so icing dusting still worth it.
 

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But when 90% of us are "hobby level" then we can use it as part of our program of varroa control.

Yes, the famous British Bee Colony Terminator Track (BBCTT)

- Varroa - harsh British Winter and - if you still survive, then Sugar Dust Terminator!


 
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So what should we do Finman? just allow the mites to build up until Thymol time when supers come off?
 

Hivemaker. 

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No much,much better methods than sugar dusting every week,and you can get rid of all the mites in 24 hours on all the foragers,if REALLY needed in mid summer,with minimum disruption to foraging that shaking sugar does every week.
 

Finman 

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So what should we do Finman? just allow the mites to build up until Thymol time when supers come off?
First, look the law book can you do nothing. If not, do it.

There is a Dutch method for midd summer http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html
Before the act you may bees let do a drone frame. Of course worker frames works.

Yu may execute it during swarmin preventing:

1) Move hive 10 feets
2) Make a new hive in old site and put there a queen, one larva frame and foundations or new combs. If hive is willing to swarm, let them push their swarming fewer into foundation drawing.

Old bees move to the new hive by themselves during next 3 days.

3) When the larva frame has been capped, take it away and kill brood. 95% of mites are now under capps.

4) When 7-10 days have gone, do same false swarm trick to the brood hive and extract older bees. Put there a emergecy queen cell. Trickle those bees, spay with oxalic acid or put a larva frame which catch mites.

In 2 weeks you have cleaned a big hive and foragers are working all the time.

As result join all bees together when you have cleaned mites.
 

mrDoe 

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There are those beekeepers who make distinctions between different available IPM tools, such as so called "soft" treatments such as drone culling, queen trapping, sugar dusting, etc. ... and "hard" treatments such as various chemical applications.

There are also organic beekeepers looking for mite treatments options.

Do we collectively, or individually, think we should be as inclusive with our advice as possible? Or should one practice/opinion prevail, dismissing it's alternatives?

I'm for the former, but to me the feel of the board has been slipping toward the latter of late.

Very few administered treatments will have above 90% efficacy and despite opinions to the contrary recently there are times when a 50% kill can save your bacon, even if it is only as a temporary measure until another treatment of some kind becomes apropriate. We must move away from the idea we can put in one treatment a year, like we could with Apistan, and realise we will always have mites. Sometimes their population level will be so low as to not be causing as much stress to the bees as a "treatment", until levels build to the point where the treatment is less stress and so advisable.

At the end of the day, you may chose to use dusting in one of it's forms, or not, and either way your decision may or may not be right!


Peter
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mrDoe 

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Thymol, formic acid and oxalic acid give over 95% efficacy.

Where you get again the better wisedom pdcambs?
Of course you may dust your bees if you feel so.

Thymol administered at 5deg = 95% No
Oxalic when there is brood = 95% No

Sweeping statements and generalisations again!


I'm no wiser than anyone else Finman; just better mannered than some, maybe! You may pour ridicule on anyone who does not receive well your edicts as much as you like; but you opened this thread about dusting, so tell us, why? Was it just to poke the "hobbyists" as you call them, again?


What are you going to say to an organic beekeeper that is wondering if dusting can be of use to him (there are some who see dusting as compatible with organic) Will your advice be "Just use acids mate!"?
 

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Thymol administered at 5deg = 95% No
Oxalic when there is brood = 95% No

"?
You invent just your own sciene behind your desk. NO ONE use those stuff that way.

Where you get those all ideas?

Thymol and formic acid are used when outer temperature is about 15C.
It is late summer job when the yield have been exctracted.
 
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Finman 

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What are you going to say to an organic beekeeper that is wondering if !"?
I cannot stand them. They have too many stupid ideas.

EU has accepted that organic beekeepers may treat varroa with oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is natural and least harmfull stuff in honey making.
 
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Hivemaker. 

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You can use the method to rid a heavy,damaging mite load using either thymol,and i would expect the summer temp to be above 5 degrees,or drone trapping,takes a few days more,but most mites are destroyed either way. this method is quick and efficient,and i would think cause less interuption or stress,and cost either nothing,or about 50p. plus can be incorporated as a part of swarm control with no loss to honey crop. or for those who wish they can shake sugar over the bee's every week,disturb them more,and lots of the mites remain to cause more stress,but every one can do just as they please,free world. i would only use oxalic on broodless bee's,but then i would not think many,if any, shake sugar over there bee's every week all through the winter.
 

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Recommendation is that use thymol and formic acid when day temperature is over 15C

5C is too low.
 

Hivemaker. 

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Absolutely correct Finman.why would anyone treat when the temp is 5 degrees with thymol or formic beats me. and why would anyone treat hives with brood with oxalic dribble method,thought there was enough imformation around for people to know these things.
 
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Monday, 27 October 2003 - 1:48 PM
0408
This presentation is part of : Student Competition Ten-Minute Papers, Cb1, Apiculture and Social Insects

Application of powdered sugar to adult honey bees (Apis mellifera) for Varroa mite control

Nicholas P. Aliano and Marion D. Ellis. University of Nebraska, Entomology, 210 Plant Industry Bldg, Lincoln, NE

Reducing Varroa mite populations in honey bee colonies is theoretically possible if adult bees are isolated from their hives and dusted with powdered sugar.

We conducted a preliminary experiment in Lincoln, NE on November 13, 2002 to test this hypothesis. Each colony was dismantled, frame by frame, and shaken into a screened box equivalent in size to a deep hive body. After containment, the bees were dusted with 225 grams of powdered sugar for five minutes and then released.

Honey bee colonies treated in this manner had a 32 ? 5.61 % decrease in mite population on average.

A separate experiment was conducted in order to identify the factors that contribute to mite fall. Three factors were considered, each with two levels.
1. Box design (single vs. double screen).
2. Agitation (agitation vs. no agitation).
3. Bee density (high vs. low).

There was significant box design by bee density interaction (p=.0465). Given high density, single screen design yielded 33.69 ? 7.84 % more mites than double screen. Agitation had no effect on mite fall (p=.1049). We conclude that dusting adult bees with powdered sugar is most effective in a solid bottom container. Further, we believe increased crowdedness of bees results in greater mite fall. These results suggest that the addition of a solid bottom to our screened box will produce significantly greater mite fall and increase Varroa control.
 

mrDoe 

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You invent just your own sciene behind your desk. NO ONE use those stuff that way.

Where you get those all ideas?

Thymol and formic acid are used when outer temperature is about 15C.
It is late summer job when the yield have been exctracted.
Apiguard (thymol) has to be put on for two weeks and then another two weeks, according to the manufacturers instructions. When from August onwards can you GUARANTEE temp's will NOT fall below 15deg for a whole month in the UK? It can be used at other times of the year IF YOU NEED TO USE IT, but you will get less efficacy.

It is a well known fact that results in the laboratory are notoriously difficult to reproduce in the field, ask any scientist. You say use it when it is over such and such a temperature, great, will you be responsible if a beginner then treats with Apiguard at 35deg and his colony absconds?

Will you guarantee every application of acid to a beehive, even if done at the correct temperature, will result in a 95%+ kill? Even if it does and your neighbour down the road looses a colony to mites that yours then rob out, how will you know with your "treat once and forget about it" attitude that just a few weeks later you again have a problem.

Regarding Oxalic dribble in the winter, do you recommend people inspect their hives once a week until they are broodless and ready to treat, or is it possible, even with the best will in the world that someone might treat when there is still a small patch of mite filled brood in a colony in the first week of January (not you of course!!)

I'm envious of your one size fits all mentality Finman, I just hope any novice beekeepers here don't fall into the trap of relying on your cavalier advice. I'm also impressed that despite you seeming indifferance to monitoring mite population all your treatment perforn exactly acording to your expectation, aparently.

All I've tried to convey is that it is advisable to monitor mite populations and treat with the appropriate tool when required. However as you know better and feel comfortable doleing out one-liner advice without qualification regarding differing circumstances etc, I shan't say another word beyond what we should be providing here is flexible advice in recognition of the fact peoples situations and preferences differ, not just one opinion because "that's how it's always worked for you in Finland".....
 

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